Cannot get rid of cyano!

[Nate]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

diatoms cause by silica?

how do i control it? i've changed over 150 gallons over the course of a few days and used RO/DI water

Not sure if you have been doing a really good gravel wash yet but I would do that. Also, you are probably going through a mini cycle due to using an antibiotic and dips in your oxygen levels.

[gregzz4]

Originally Posted by Nate

you are probably going through a mini cycle due to using an antibiotic and dips in your oxygen levels.

This would be my thought

Are you aerating ?

[MarkoD]

I've got a sump. Orp reads between 405 and 420 like it always has.

But yeah mini cycle could be possible I suppose

[Cal_stir]

I had a small diatom bloom on my glass and substrate, nothing on my rocks. Your tank is going thru a mini cycle.
Are you dosing microbacter?
Are you dosing vodka?
I was dosing the ULN dosage of microbacter and biofuel.
I don't know what the dosage for vodka would be but there should be some info on this forum.
I did a 10% wc @ a week after to vacuum my sustrate, diatoms pretty much cleared up after that.
I also turkey basted my rocks.

[Finley]

Hey All,

I see you are on page 17 so I'm guessing you are still debating the cyano issue and since I don't have the time to read the entire post, here is what I used to do and it works without fail every time.

I would dose my tank with Erythromycin, specifically Aquarium Pharmaceuticals EM Erythromycin Fish Medicine Powder Packets.

Here a link so you can see what it looks like.

http://aquaterras.com/index.php?main...oducts_id=1006

I would buy it at Petland and dose 1 packet per 10g mixed with a little tank water then add to tank. I wouldn't dump the packets right in. TURN OFF YOUR SKIMMER! It works quickly and after a couple days it should be mostly gone. Have a filter sock or something on to catch what goes out your overflow.

I would keep my skimmer off for this time and then do a 25% water change after 2 days. Then another smaller one a few days later. Obviously when I turn my skimmer back on I would have to dial it back, but since I was doing water changes it didn't matter so much.

Once I figured this out I never worried about cyano. I think once its in your tank it never really goes away. I would probably to this once a year or so.

Now of course I'm sure the debate will start so I'll say this. It works and tank was just fine. I learned this trick from Colby at Elite before he rode off into the sunset. I haven't had to do this for awhile since I downsized my tank and have T5s instead of MH lighting so go figure.

[bigal]

i get it every spring. and i find my silica buster filter on my RO/DI gets taxed realy fast four about 3 months.i think its all the spring run off

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Nate

I wish marko the best of luck in the future and who knows, perhaps he can develop a method of no-work reefkeeping that can put me out of a job?

It is called Monaco filtration.

Quick question here. When you say cyano "problem" could someone please define "problem" for me? I have had one patch appear, slightly larger than a loonie. Is that a "problem"? Should I be actually doing something about it or should I just adjust my regime slightly and see if I can cut it down or stop the spread? It is only in my DSB, no where else and I have pretty much zero nuisance algae anywhere in my tank (so little I find it annoying as i would LIKE to have a sea hair.. *sigh*)

I am pretty sure that the problem is that I am over feeding the tank (although I have it on what is called a calorie restricted diet, so I only "feed" every two days, but I think I have been over feeding to compensate). Going to try and reduce feeding a little bit and see how that does.

As for water changes... It really depends on what kind of system you are running and how loaded it is. There are major aquaria that do water changes "infrequently or never". The Dymico system is a very good example (I used to have an entire chart of major aquaria that don't do water changes, but I can't find the damn thing any more). These are world class systems that never do a water change. HOWEVER, if you aren't running a system designed for it, I would say you would be crazy not to do them. I think that quite a bit of religion has grown up out of water changes, and for a very good reason. If you don't know what is going on in your tank and aren't monitoring it constantly to see if you actually NEED to do a water change, then doing 10%/week will save you no end of problems, simply as a precaution.

I did a huge amount of research into this before starting. I probably spent as much time doing just research as most people take to get fish in their tank (several months of research). The first thing I learned is that there is absolutely no scientific consensus that exists in aquaria at all. Ask five different scientists and you will get five different answers. I have literally looked at research studies on the same subject that come to completely different conclusions, all done by creditable institutions. We don't know the long term effects of skimming, we do know that it increases hydrophobic bacteria counts to well above what you would find in nature. What does that mean.. hell if I know, and no one else does either!

In the end, we are all feeling around in the dark about a subject were there are little facts known and many rules of thumb. Hell, I don't even run a traditional Monaco setup as I use FAR less filtration than even Jaulbert does and instead rely on micro fauna populations to control organic removal. My system has characteristics of several "natural" systems. I use macro for nutrient export like in a Smithsonian Style Aquarium as described by Adey and Loveland. As well as use minimal forced filtration in order to keep as much live plankton in the water column as I can. I use a DSB and a plenum as found in Monaco and Dymico systems and lastly I use the 1lbs/gal rule for live rock in the display as commonly found in Berlin systems. If I could find one at a reasonable price I would be using a positive displacement pump as used in a true Smithsonian Style Aquarium so that I don't have fauna loss due to cavitation as the water is pumped from sump to display. All that means is that the pressure on my nutrients is always DOWN. It is actually a problem as if it gets too low, you risk your macro going sexual on you (to combat that you need to use 24/7 lighting in the fuge).

So.. will it work long term.. who the hell knows! It is working now, can't say everything is perfect, but I would expect that with any system I am running. I am not super advanced in the hobby, just do research in my job professionally so doing in depth functional studies are just.. well something I do and am quite good at. I still have so much practical knowledge to learn it isn't funny. That being said, I seem to have hit on a method that works without the overhead and maintenance. Other than adding in fresh water to combat evaporation, I have only needed to do one water change (due to my own incompetence) at this point from the time it was set up.

Figured I would put up a video. I think I ****ed off everyone in the city with my questions about skimmers and I figure it is time to show off a bit of what all the advice resulted in =). If you ask around Edmonton about "The monaco guy" that would be me =). I know it is small (until I get my 90 set up) and it isn't nearly as fancy as some of your guy's tanks (this is a LOW tech, getto experimental tank), but I am quite proud of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRTbZiGfllM&feature=plcp

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

We don't know the long term effects of skimming, we do know that it increases hydrophobic bacteria counts to well above what you would find in nature. What does that mean.. hell if I know, and no one else does either!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRTbZiGfllM&feature=plcp

what do you mean by this??


skimmings been around for a long time what would you call long term??

[pseudonym]

Hey Denny!

Thanks for the Zoas BTW.. LOVE them. =) Bring moar!! Are you coming to frag fest?

As for "long term".. running continuously for 10+ years on a system where we have actual research into the effects of skimming as compared to natural ocean reefs, with a control system and then repeating it several times in order to compare. I would say somewhere in the region of 50 - 75 years when added together and run concurrently over that 10 year period. IE: a rigorous scientific long term study of the effects of skimming. Something we don't have and it appears no one is currently doing. That *I* can find at any rate.

Advanced Aquarist published two detailed studies on skimmers. The first was to create a framework for evaluation, the second to actually do the evaluation. The results were surprising to say the least. Looking at the composition of skimmate is suggestive of a vast amount of micro fauna being removed along with organic compounds. Again, the research is very preliminary, we know next to nothing about the effects and while I can look at the composition to say "This is suggestive of" we don't actually KNOW what skimmers remove.

Bacterial counts are very interesting and a huge black hole in our knowledge. it is believed that it may be linked to coral spawning, or it may be linked to general health. We simply don't know. All we can do is compare it to natural systems and say that the count of hydrophobic bacteria is higher than in natural systems. We can't even say what kind of bacteria it is and can only describe general characteristics such a hydrophobic let alone say with any certainty what the long term effects are.

[pseudonym]

Just re-read the study on bacterial populations and protein skimmers. It is even worse than I stated. We can't even say with any certainty that hydrophobic bacteria levels are increased. The exact conclusion is that there is an evolutionary preasure that will almost certainly result in increased populations of hydrophobic bacteria. In the words of the study:

"Aquaria subjected to active filtration via skimming present water column bacteria populations that are approximately 1/10 of those observed on natural reefs. The consequences of this disparity on the long-term health of the tank's livestock are not known. How do reef tank organisms adapt to such a bacteria-deficient environment? Is the whole food web in an aquarium perturbed, or are there compensatory mechanisms that maintain an appropriate energy transduction through all of the trophic levels? Is "old tank syndrome" related to possible nutritional deficiencies stemming from this bacteria "gap"? Alternatively, could "old tank syndrome" be symptomatic of a gradual decrease of bacterial diversity as a consequence of selective skimmer-based removal of only bubble-susceptible bacteria? At present, it is not possible to go beyond speculation on these points - further research is needed."