Ca/Alk/Mag Mess . . . How to fix?

[Enigma]

That's what I consider about perfect.

I'm going to get two tests that agree . . . and if I don't I'm going to Denny's to compare with his test (which is Elos).

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Enigma

That's what I consider about perfect.

It's a bit high, I'd rather it was 420ish, but it's acceptable.

[gregzz4]

This may not belong in Shelley's post, but ...
And, this is a hella long post

I currently use IO Sea Salt, and batch # 11257 is being tested here

OK, I thoroughly hate testing

I just finished 3-1/2 hours of water testing my NSW, DT and RO
I don't want to think about how much test kit money I have just thrown away .....
Plus, after dinner, I still have to store some of this water for J&L to test and do a DT WC

Here's my testing info;

Each time I fouled a test with a partial drop I started over
I lost about 2 Alk, 7 Ca and 3 Mg tests, give or take ...
Plus, each time I got a reading that was outside the norm, I tested again

With the Elos kits I went a step farther than they suggest and rinsed the syringes with test water before taking samples

When adding the powder in the Elos kits, they state it's OK if not all the powder dissolves
With this in mind, I tested once with only shaking the vial after adding the powder, and tested again with the cap on the vial and shook vigorously
There was no measured difference between using/not using the vial cap
To confirm this, I tested the Ca in my NSW 5 times and all readings came in within 10ppt of each other

For reference, I bought both the Seachem Marine pH/Alk and the Seachem Reef Status Ca kits
I will never buy these again and I'm going to return these 2 kits as they are tedious and, IMO, unreliable
I don't want to turn this into a review, but I will say that I use Seachem NH3, NO2 and NO3 and find them easy and reliable
For Alk, Ca and Mg I will stick with Elos

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Quick question for those with really high levels of Ca...what are you using to test salinity? Is it accurate?
My Ca was up around 500 in an old tank for a long time. I was using a swing arm hydrometer that went south and my salt was at 1.036 for months. Ca was way high....just a thought...

Brad, it's funny you brought this up when you did as I did some more reading last night and checked my refractometer before bedtime;
After 45 secs it gave me 35ppt with the solution

Today, after talking with Jeff @ J&L, I floated the solution in the DT for 1/2hr and again my refractometer is 35ppt with the cal solution

It's safe to assume my tests are @ 1.025, although I only use a BRS ATO refractometer. But, it has been checked against J&L's current one, so it has to be 'close enough'

On to the test results

19g of NSW @ 79F and 1.025 Sg
Elos;
- Alk 11
- Ca 490, 500, 500
- Mg 1300
Seachem;
- Alk 11
- Ca 475, 475

DT water @ 79F and 1.025 Sg
Elos;
- Alk 7
- Ca 430, 440, 430
- Mg 1550, 1550

RO water @ 72F
Elos; big 3 all test to Zero

You will note my DT water is hi in Mg. That is due to me dosing Mg to eradicate algae
I am still waiting for the Mg to drop
After the effects of my last round of dosing Mg I will not be doing it again anytime soon as it threw the other 2 out of whack

I am now only performing WCs to keep my tank in check and have dosed Alk ONCE ONLY to bring it back to above 7

I feel this info is enough to prove my Instant Ocean Sea Salt is OUT OF WHACK
Go ahead and call me crazy now, will ya

Getting back to Shelley's original post ....

Check your source water and NSW as well
Do a big WC ( as Brad suggested ), test, test again, and just watch what happens

It took me over a month for my params to come back in to check after I dosed Mg

[gregzz4]

I'm taking 2 cups of my newest NSW and 2 cups of raw salt to J&L tomorrow for testing

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by gregzz4

I currently use IO Sea Salt, and batch # 11257 is being tested here

I'm starting to think there's something wrong with your salt

My LFS guy was off today, so I wasn't able to get any to test.

[gregzz4]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I'm starting to think there's something wrong with your salt

At least we're now talking about my Salt being off instead of it being either;

1 - Greg's kits are out of whack
2 - Greg's out of whack



Although, I'll admit I'm out of whack sometimes

As I said, I'll report my findings

[Enigma]

Very interesting, Greg.

While the Seachem Reef Status tests are a production (you should see the magnesium test ), I'm curious as to why you feel the Reef Status calcium test is unreliable. It gave you the exact same results twice. Did you do additional tests that did not return similar values? Or, did you foul a number of the test?

I'm impressed with your dedication to this! And yes, your salt is whacked (for IO). It is testing much more like Reef Crystals. And, in that case, I'm wondering why the heck I'm paying for Reef Crystals when the plain IO is returning results like that.

I wasn't able to pick up the Hanna Checker and the Elos Calcium test last night, as I narrowly missed Dave @ Concept. I'll be picking those up tonight. And, I will endeavour to get some numbers that corroborate. Once I have numbers I trust, I'll have a better idea how to approach this.

Did another 10% wc last night . . . and my euphyllia are ****ed! I'll be spying on them with the ip cam today. They all shrunk right up into their skeletons.

[gregzz4]

Originally Posted by Enigma

I'm curious as to why you feel the Reef Status calcium test is unreliable. It gave you the exact same results twice. Did you do additional tests that did not return similar values? Or, did you foul a number of the test?

I found the Seachem Reef Ca kit to be unreliable as the testing proceedure uses such a diluted sample that I couldn't make out the colors well enough, and the lines on the reagent syringe are so dammed small that I had trouble reading how much solution I had used. Why can't they make a kit with dripper-style dispensing bottles ???
It did give me the same results 2 times and yes I fouled numerous tests as it was my first time using this style kit
I had Jeff @ J&L try using the Seachem Alk kit and he showed me how to make it work better, although I still find it less user friendly than a dripper bottle is

I am making up some more NSW from the same bucket and will re-test with the Elos and Seachem kits

Now, here's something interesting;

I took in a sample of my NSW and my DT water to J&L
While Andy got the same KH results as I did, the Ca tests were nowhere near the same
We each used both their kit and mine, and we tested both of my water samples
I tested 470 Ca and Andy tested 380-420
It looks like it's coming down to user technique

I've contacted Elos as there is a pictogram in the packaging that shows the reagent bottles being dripped from an angle of approx 45 degrees

I was testing my Ca with the bottles held at an angle for 2 reasons;
One is sometimes the bottle may keep dripping if held vertically and;
Two was because of the images on the card

This may explain why my results are so high as I'm not dispensing the same amount per drop as Andy is when the bottles are held completely vertical

I've PMd LeanneP to ask her what test kits she is using and her testing methods, as well as to ask her if she'd be willling to re-test if she is using Elos kits

I felt very vindicated last night after all my tests
Now I'm feeling kinda sheepish

[gregzz4]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Did another 10% wc last night . . . and my euphyllia are ****ed! I'll be spying on them with the ip cam today. They all shrunk right up into their skeletons.

That's something I've not experienced yet
Was your new water mixed well and the same temp etc etc ??

Did you do anything else at the same time ?

I'm becoming so anal that I won't do 2 things at the same time anymore