Warning to Profilux Users

[Myka]

In all of this I see two flaws...

1) Tank was left unattended for too long (if you value your tank someone should check it daily).

2) Alarms should have to be manually reset (that's really basic engineering).



In the end though, it's all about redundancy. Redundancy is the only insurance we have. No way on Earth would I have my system set up in a way that would allow that much freshwater (or dosing fluids) to be pumped into the display. I think sometimes we rely on computers and gadgets too much, and put too much faith in them.

My system is designed so that if my freshwater bin gets pumped dry for some reason the sump can even hold all the volume so I wouldn't even have a wet floor. The top off bin needs to be refilled every second or third day, and that's fine by me because it's a safe way to do it. I cringe when people have their top off system hooked up to unlimited supplies of water. It's an accident waiting to happen. My dosing canisters are small; I have large premixed containers that I use to refill the dosing canisters once a week. My dosing pumps have dosed a whole weeks' worth of fluid in about 8 hours which ran the dosing canister dry. This was not enough to cause significant reactions. The redundancy I have implemented means I have to "do stuff" with the tank more often, but I have a lot of time, money, and energy in that glass box so it is worth it to me. When I go on holidays an aquarium maintenance company checks my tanks 1-2 times per day. It's not cheap, but neither are the corals in the tank!

[Myka]

I don't mean to sound insensitive at all, I feel really awful for what sphelps has gone through with this horrible disaster. I thank sphelps for sharing his story, and I hope we can all take something from his experience.

[sphelps]

Myka, I agree with your statements but be aware I did have someone enter my house twice daily although their experience with aquariums is nil and their prime objective was not related to the tank. I also had someone with experience on call and checking on the tank every few days. While I would have loved to have someone with great experience in aquariums checking my tank more frequently my remote location makes this rather difficult. Also note this failure occurred very quickly within 12 hours if you can believe it. By the time the issue was noticed the damage was done.

In regards to top off water supply yes perhaps a smaller amount of available supply would be better but I have issues with this as well. If I leave for an extended period of time then IMO it's better to have enough top off water available for the entire time otherwise I have to rely on others fulling a container with RO water which in the past is something that has gone very badly for myself personally and others I know as well. So for extended trips the amount of evaporation water available IMO will need to exceed that of the amount that cannot cause damage. Using the small bucket approach to me is not redundancy as it basically adds the need for another top off system which in fact increases your chances of failures rather than decreases it. While obviously there are many way to do this I stand by my method but agree more redundancy is needed but more related to what I mentioned earlier and perhaps additional floats or something else along these lines.

Lastly I draw attention to my last request in the first post of this thread.

[Myka]

Jorjef, automation is tha bomb, but it's definitely not a fail-safe.

Originally Posted by sphelps

Lastly I draw attention to my last request in the first post of this thread.

I wasn't offering advice (I know you don't like advice). I was just offering some ideas to those reading this thread.

I can't see how failing to refill a top off container could come to a situation as bad as the one you were dealt with though. The Tunze Osmolator quits pumping when it runs out of water, and the replacement pump is $30. If my sump runs out of water my Poseidon return pump will also quit operating. If the Poseidon happens to burn out I have a spare pump on hand with the appropriate plumbing fittings ready to go. The system is quite fine to run without the sump for a few days (the biggest consequence being no dosing), although the aquarium maintenance company would surely notice long before that. The company tested the tank for the "big three" weekly and reported to me if they were out of range for appropriate instructions on rectifying the problem.

There are always those things we just don't think about though, and those are the things that kick our butt and crash our tank. In your case, you didn't think about the repeated power outages. Who would? I've certainly never experienced such a thing.

[sphelps]

The problem relates to filling the container once empty especially if relying on others or equipment in your absence, doing so manually from an RO increases chance of flooding and doing so automatically requires additional ATO which doesn't add redundancy but rather another point of possible failure.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by sphelps

The problem relates to filling the container once empty especially if relying on others or equipment in your absence, doing so manually from an RO increases chance of flooding and doing so automatically requires additional ATO which doesn't add redundancy but rather another point of possible failure.

When I worked out of province (for 18 months) I kept two 65 gallon barrels full of RO/DI water. These barrels held enough for one month of top offs and waterchanges for my 90. I was always home at least once a month to refill the barrels so the barrels never ran dry and the RO/DI system never ran unless I was home. The maintenance company would use a 2 gallon bucket to manually add water to the 5 gallon top off vessel. He wanted me to automate it or use a bigger top off vessel, and I said "absolutely not". He also wanted to add a float valve to the RO/DI barrels so the RO/DI would turn on automatically, but I ixnayed that idea too. He was paid to do it a certain way, and he understood when I explained. My biggest fear was clam spawning, and I eventually sold the clams because of that fear.

When I was a carpenter, my old boss used to always say, "You gotta be smarter than the tool." ****ed me off at the time, but now I laugh. Yep, that is so true. In this case, we have to be smarter than our gadgets.

Anyway, I'm sure you're tired of this thread by now...I would be. Feel free to hit me up for frags when/if you come to that point in the future.

[jorjef]

What I have taken from this is I'm keeping my "five gallon lift to the tank and pour in top up system" for a long long time. Call it old school, cheap, inept regarding technology but it's flawless. After reading this post and others regarding automated system mishaps be it dosing or top up has pushed me further away from ever exploring them. They're just not for me.

[burgerchow]

Originally Posted by jorjef

What I have taken from this is I'm keeping my "five gallon lift to the tank and pour in top up system" for a long long time. Call it old school, cheap, inept regarding technology but it's flawless. After reading this post and others regarding automated system mishaps be it dosing or top up has pushed me further away from ever exploring them. They're just not for me.

+1. old school is best

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Myka

In all of this I see two flaws...

1) Tank was left unattended for too long (if you value your tank someone should check it daily).

I have to disagree with you in this situation, if you read it this all happened in less than a day, so having some one check the tank even once a day may or may not have helped. he did have some one checking every day or two.

I had 100 gal of top off water on my system, but I was old school with a float valve that was cleaned regulary. a large top off is a benifit, especialy when you go away.

if some one wanted me to check in on there tank for them while there away thats what I expect. check in and maybe feed fish, not do maintenance and such. I can tell you, unless you have a special tank sitter your paying for or a very very good friend, you start asking people to spend 3 hours at your place making water ect and your going to be looking for some one else the next time.

Steve

[Skimmerking]

I think that this thread has gone far unless we get everyones opinion. That will only cause hardships and headeache's. I am so sorry Steve that your tank ended in a tragic loss. To the sponsors that gave thier opinions. Yes they gave what they knew from issues in the past. YOU can't bash a guy for giving his experience and opinions. Facts are facts. But if a sensor expires after so many years and it's electronics. Then that is a flaw wires and plastics should not have a shelf life.
But to voice a debate will just get nasty. Everyone will have a say regardless on what happens.

My thoughts Steve left for vacation and had someone check his tank.
He also had his tank monitored by a controller.
Luck have it the power went off and caused it to do what ever it did causing a catastrophic event to happen with in a day or so.

Heck I was gone over to afghanistan for 7 months and my wife watched my tank and nothing happened. I have my float switch hooked up to my top off that was in my sump. But Steve's tank did and life goes on he was just letting everyone know that what hapened. Of course the owner and mike the canadian sponssor of aqua digital wos give their explanations which was said. In my honest opinion this thread should be closed to minimize any further hard feelings.