What to do - thoughts appreciated

[gregzz4]

Ya, it would be LPS. Something that poops
Something like a frogspawn would be nice
I'd also like some rics later
And a nice clown. I'm not going to start with a picasso but I saw some nice blacks Saturday

So, tomorrow, we'll see what the store has

I don't think I'm ready for a blenny yet Harp

[jorjef]

Holy Moly, go buy a couple Chromis before you go nuts, just don't over feed them. Don't add corals until later and don't waste your money on a CUC unless you need one, then only buy what you need not three of everything.

[Reef Pilot]

You have put a lot of thought, effort, time and money into your new tank. Why risk it all by not having an ongoing functioning QT, and guaranteed healthy fish and corals? And not to mention killing otherwise healthy fish down the road because you didn't do this. I personally think that is a totally irresponsible choice to make given how simple it is to set up and keep a QT. It is just as important to start with your first fish, as it will be once your display tank is fully established.

My QT is very simple. I use a canister filter which means it is always cycled and ready to go, so you don't have to battle ammonia with a hastily set up QT. The water (and salt) is free, as I use recycled water from my display tank water changes. And that display tank water will also help acclimatize your new fish before moving them to the display tank.

Mark my words. If you choose not to QT, you will be very sorry, and upset within a year or so in the future, when you helplessly watch your prized fish suffer and die. And you tear apart your beautiful rock and corals trying to catch your sick fish to move them to your new hastily set up QT, where most of them will die anyway, because of ammonia poisoning. Do you really want this scenario? I have seen this party way too many times here on Canreef in the last couple years.

I know you said you are QTing everything, but you also seemed to be waffling with your response to Subman, so pardon my tough love post here. This topic is just too important to sit on the fence.

[fishytime]

QTs are great and they do work, but unless you plan on QTing EVERYTHING(fish and coral), I think your still rolling the dice.....quarantining fish will eliminate the chance of introducing a disease, but unless you quarantine your corals too you still run the risk of introducing parasites....

with the amount of dead rock you have started with patience is going to be key......you may be able to help things along with a bottled product but Ive never had any experience doing this......

[tang daddy]

I would personally add corals first to a cycled tank over fish, some corals can take more abuse than fish.

When I say start with corals I am meaning zoas and mushrooms, these corals can withstand quite alot of torture.....

I would wait abit on lps, start with softies, then lps and finally sps if you even plan on getting any.

When I usually start off my tank, I always add cheaper soft corals as a tester, if you kill zoas and mushrooms then your tank definately has a problem.

Dont use damsels to cycle, you will have a hard time catching them out. As much as I hate damsels I would not use them for food or cycling. The cocktail shrimp is the best method for cycling to start the amonia cycle.

Inverts should never go in a tank first aswell, they are sensitive so if there is a cycle they may not do well, again just my thoughts.....

Here is they way I see it, you cured your rock and so this doesnt help you much with a cycle because most of your cured rock doesnt have tons of algae, sponges etc. If there is no algae then the animals feeding on the algae perish, there may be slight amounts of bacteria still lingering on the rock but with no waste its hard for them to colonize.....

I still stick with my original statement, which is add some cheaper softies to your tank, add some Lr rubble or a few more pieces of liverock to your sump. Wait for the diatoms which is usually the first sign of a cycle, then the hair algae stage and maybe a cyano stage then after this is all over your tank is cycled.

I speak from experience, all my tanks I have started go through these stages, Threads on reef central seem to go through the same situation. With soft corals they can handle the nitrate/nitrite spikes, and the pods will thrive on the algae outbreak in your tank whilst cycling.

Hope my input will help with your decision, at the algae stage the fish should be good to add, because the algae will use up most of the nitrates from the tank.

[daplatapus]

Originally Posted by gregzz4

OK, I get what you're pointing out, but you've still lost me ....

I've added rock that cured for 3 months
It has run for almost 2 weeks and there are;

0 ammonia
0 nitrites
0 nitrates

Plus, there's;
0 phosphates

I know it will cycle when I add something now, but, unless I'm missing something here, you are telling me that my fallow tank will still cycle on it's own ??????

It has not done so in 11 days

I think I now understand part of your question. I've never tried cycling with any product in a bottle. So my following remarks may not even apply to your situation, and if so sorry for wasting everyone's time if they read this
Understanding the cycling process is key to knowing what's going on and any future spikes you're going to see. Ammonia is the first stage of your cycle. Without it your tank will sit there and evaporate water and that's it. So unless whatever is in the bottle has a decent about of ammonia your cycle can't progress. Ammonia can come from several sources. Dead and decaying matter or pure ammonia poured in. If you have cured live rock, everything on it is very much alive and thus no ammonia. But it still needs to eat so if not fed will die rot and produce ammonia. So what sometimes happens is if the tank isn't fed, either by ghost feeding, adding a non-living shrimp, etc, you cycle stalls out before it even starts. The organisms must be fed to keep alive and for the cycle to continue to it's next stage. Once the 2 main bacteria have developed in your tank your cycle is complete. If you have a DSB there are 3 bacteria. But the 2 bacteria that feed on ammonia and nitrite must be cultured and their growth promoted in your tank for that cycle to complete. W/C's and or a DSB will remove your nitrate's.

It seems to me your tank either hasn't cycled yet or if it did, you blinked and missed it Which is possible. I put in 120 lbs of pure Tonga live rock in mine then over 3 weeks threw in 2 cocktail shrimp which completely liquified and disintegrated in my tank. I never once saw any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. Puzzled the hell out of me until someone pointed out the step by step process of cycling. If the bacteria is there in sufficient quantities, you'll never see a cycle.
But IMO, (I don't remember exactly what you put in there for LR and dead rock) I doubt you have enough LR in there to have accomplished that. Start dropping fish food or a cocktail shrimp in your tank for a week or so and see if there's any spike. If not, you may have cycled already.

Fish poop will also feed the bacteria chain. Corals eats fish poop so the more I think about it, they may actually hinder the bacteria building process by eating that food source. I know there are certain challenges with coral only tanks so starting with fish seems to be the wisest choice.

Hope that helps.

[gregzz4]

Thanks everyone for the great input
Just to clarify - although I'm new to SW, I have decades of FW knowledge and have been voraciously reading about SW since last fall.
I do understand the chemistry and bacterial functions. I've posted this as I know I need to grow my bacterial colonies and want something to feed

I do have my QT running and I've already stated I will definately use it

I see the point of not trying lps yet and will look at maybe some 'shrooms, but I'm not going after any zoas right now as I'm not sure I want any

We haven't made it to the LFS yet but if we grab any fish it will only be 1 ( or 2 at most )

All that's growing right now is turf and HA, so it looks like the cycle is further along and I guarantee you it's stalled. This is why I want to get something to feed into it. I'll ponder ghost feeding while the new purchases are in QT, and will be hooking up the GFO reactor today to see how the algae reacts

There are some feather dusters and sponge that made it through cooking so I didn't kill everything

As for what I've already done;
I have 2 Astreas and 1 Red Scalet Hermit
All are milling about on the largest pile of LR. I guess they'll be my canary for now

And don't worry, I am taking this slow, but I have to add something after a QT, right ?

[gregzz4]

Also, I'll get some more LR for the sump but I'll cure it for at least up to a week to see what kind of shape it's in and what's hiding in it

[gregzz4]

For those not following my build thread ...
I bought another 57lbs of LR yesterday from TaioneReefer. It appears to be cured. I'll watch it this week to see where the NO3 and PO4 are at
The plan is to stuff as much of it into the sump as possible and maybe put a couple in the DT

Finally getting some diatoms now so looks like the cycle hasn't stalled after all. Don't know if adding the astreas kick started it, but they sure have pooped a lot already. Time to crank up the vortechs a bit