I'm an Idiot

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

And if you had 10 other people in the same bathroom. Why would the snakes only attack one person?

smart snakes??

As Marie stated, ich isn't a disease, it's a parasite. It's like 10 people going for a hike in the swamp. Not all will find a friendly leech, but some will. Nothing to do with immune system or stress. It's a parasite.

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

smart snakes??

As Marie stated, ich isn't a disease, it's a parasite. It's like 10 people going for a hike in the swamp. Not all will find a friendly leech, but some will. Nothing to do with immune system or stress. It's a parasite.

It doesn't matter what it is. It's the method of transmission.

Air is to humans as water is to fish.

Virus is to humans as parasite is to fish.

If a deadly virus is in the air all humans around it will be effected.

If a parasite is in the water all fish should be effected.

But they're not, because healthy fish can resist and fight the effects of ich

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

It doesn't matter what it is. It's the method of transmission.

Air is to humans as water is to fish.

Virus is to humans as parasite is to fish.

If a virus is in the air all humans around it will be effected.

If a parasite is in the water all fish should be effected.

But they're not, because healthy fish can resist and fight the effects of ich

You're still making stuff up to cover up for the other stuff you made up. Virii are not comparable to parasites in any form or fashion. Just not

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

You're still making stuff up to cover up for the other stuff you made up. Virii are not comparable to parasites in any form or fashion. Just not

Lol we'll go with your non made up theory that ich parasites are smart and only attack the fish they dislike most

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

Lol we'll go with your non made up theory that ich parasites are smart and only attack the fish they dislike most

Actually, I said snakes "may" be smart. Not ich.

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Actually, I said snakes "may" be smart. Not ich.

Your metaphor indicated that ich was like venomous snakes that a fish/person could avoid unless put into a aquarium/bathroom

[Mrfish55]

Anyhooo, I have a bottle of garlic extract sitting here if you want to dose his food Marie, it worked on my powder brown with no I'll effects to the reef, did make for some funky smelling skimmate tho, welcome to it if you want.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

Your metaphor indicated that ich was like venomous snakes that a person/fish could avoid unless put into a bathroom/aquarium

You're losing me here. The above is correct, but not relevant to the intelligence thingy.
Ich in the wild is less likely to come into contact with a fish. When it does, the fish DOES have a protective slime coat that can "help" avoid infestation by that single ich bug, although it's not a sure fire thing. However, in a closed environment, a healthy fish is much more likely to come into contact once your bucket of ich is introduced, and while it's slime coat may assist in warding off the initial attacks, the attacks themselves may cause a cumulative build in stress that lessens the fishes chances of avoiding infestation.
Ergo, a healthy non stressed fish in an aquarium that has an over population of ich is highly at risk of contracting ich. Mostly I made this up, but it just sounds so damn good
However, you please believe whatever you like, and don't let me try to convince you you're wrong, just because you made stuff up. It sounds all pretty good too, you know, for made up stuff.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

It doesn't matter what it is. It's the method of transmission.

Air is to humans as water is to fish.

Virus is to humans as parasite is to fish.

If a deadly virus is in the air all humans around it will be effected.

If a parasite is in the water all fish should be effected.

But they're not, because healthy fish can resist and fight the effects of ich

A parasite is a living organism. They need a host to feed off of in order to replicate.

A virus is not considered to be living therefore it does not need its host for "food". Rather it needs a specific host cell to replicate. It attacks the cell itself. Both Lytic and Lysogenic Viruses destroy the host cells in order to reproduce.

Parasites are more easily dealt with via medication if the parasite type is known. There are very few medications for viruses. Virus defense is generally vaccines which usually contain the dead virus' protein coat (immune system responds to this) creating antibodies to deal with that specific virus. Once your immune system creates these antibodies, it can fight off future infection before it makes you sick.

The above method of vaccination can work for parasites but it is not used much anymore. In the case of ich, there is even a theory (I stress theory) that fish can become "immune" to ich after fighting it off. I'd believe this more if we were talking a virus but to some degree it may be true. "From my experience" does not make something fact, just one observation in an uncontrolled environment.

Bottom line, of course a stressed fish is more likely to have a compromised immune system in which viruses, bacteria and parasites will be more successful in attacking and making your fish sick but saying a "healthy" non stressed fish will not get a parasite even if a lot of the parasite is introduced to a closed system is absurd. I'd like to know how the stress level of these fish is being measured anyways. I doubt many fish in our aquariums are NOT stressed to some degree, it's actually quite amazing how well they can adapt and survive considering what they went through and continue to go through in our aquariums.

Anyway, now I'm contributing to this thread getting off track.

Sorry to hear about this Marie. One of my favorite fish over the years on Canreef...

[Reefie]

So sorry to hear about Doofus!

I just had a recent battle with ich, completely my fault though. I didn't quarantine and picked up the 3 Tangs within 2 days of their arrival and then after a 4 hour drip-acclimation into my tank. They did fine for the first week or so, and then the Blue Hippo showed ich, and then the Powder Blue, and then finally the Yellow. I fed them Garlic drenched food for about 10 days, and the ich looked like it was receeding. Then I noticed my McCosker's Flasher Wrasse showed ich spots, so I kept up the Garlic drenched food for another few days. I went overnight to Seattle, only to come home to................all 3 Tangs dead, all 4 Dispar Anthias dead, Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse dead, and the McCosker's Flasher shows ich but is hanging on by a thread. Did an emergency 60% WC to clear out an Ammonia. The McCosker's is still hanging on, and the rest of the fish are no longer panting for air.

So, back to the theory of "healthy" fish not contracting ich.........all of the fish were healthy and not stressed even after the introduction of the Tangs. A parasite is a PARASITE, it's life cycle to infect and reproduce until it can no longer continue to do so.

My previous Tangs did have small outbreak of ich when I first got them about a year ago. I treated with Proto Marin, as it was the only reef-safe medication I could find. I didn't use the Proto Marin this time because I now have clams, which I didn't before and I read that clams may or may not react to it.

So now, every day I come home from work, I check to see if anything else has died. Pretty sad, yes I know..........

I'm not planning to re-stock for at least a few months, maybe even half a year to let the ich life-cycle run it's course. What I have learned is to QT anything new before adding it to the DT. So, if anyone knows where I can get a small 5 Gal all-in-one tank, it would be used to QT any new additions.

Marie, I really hope Doofus pulls through for you!!!