how do i let the dark side take over?

troni · #1 01-22-2012, 02:58 PM

Ok so easier then I thought. Freshwater nitrifying bacteria the same as salt? Cause I think I'm still going to use my ac30 HOB filter, which is another thing I see a lot of nano tanks without skimmers but with filters. So rock that 2.50 probaly no good unless he's crazy. Ill start researching those pests and make sure I know what I'm looking for...unless red coral has some great deals on

lol...

Edmonton newbie · #2 01-22-2012, 03:03 PM

yes i was in red coral yesterday, he still has lots of dry rock there that you could seed yourself and have time to catch up on your reading whilr waiting for it to be ready for the fish

troni · #3 01-22-2012, 03:23 PM

I heard that can take up to a year

Aquattro · #4 01-22-2012, 03:41 PM

For a tank that's only 20g, you could get away with about 10 pounds of rock. For the potential hassle of using used rock, you'd be much better off buying fresh cured rock from the LFS. You're looking at a difference of what, 50 bucks? One 4 week battle with algae problems from old PO4 soaked rock will quickly have you questioning the "deal' you got.
While I'm sure that you can find some rock less than a year old that someone is selling at a loss, it's more likely 3 or 4 yr old rock, and often the person has shut down or down sized due to issues with the tank, like algae problems due to high nutrients. Since the live rock is the foundation in which you're building your entire tank, is it really worth it to try and save 50 bucks?
Sure, you might get a crab in new rock. You might get it in old rock. So what, leave it or catch it, it's not tough. I once got isopods in a batch of new rock. They're bad. I caught them all in 20 minutes. Done.
Trust me, it's easier to catch one or two pests in new rock than to battle hair algae for 3 months on used rock. With a crab, it can be annoying. With algae problems, your tank will look like crap and you'll probably regret setting it up in the first place.
As for dry rock, sure, no issues, but yes, it can take a long time to become real live rock. Maybe a year. For 50 bucks??
For people starting a 300g tank, rock price can be a concern, but for a 20g, start right and your time in the hobby will be more enjoyable.

Just my opinion

Edmonton newbie · #5 01-22-2012, 03:42 PM

no no just put a raw shrimp in the tank and in a few weeks you will have cured most of your rock plus you will have good clean rock with no pests unless you bring it in with corals lol do your reading and keep an open mind. all good things happen in saltwater tanks slowly

Aquattro · #6 01-22-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edmonton newbie

no no just put a raw shrimp in the tank and in a few weeks you will have cured most of your rock

Not exactly. First, you don't cure the rock, since it had no die-off. Second, the difference between a cycled tank (not producing NH3/4) and having functional live rock, is the presence of denitrifying bacteria deep in the pores of the rock. This is going to take much longer than a couple of weeks. With dry rock in a NH3 free tank, you have pretty rocks. With real live rock, you have a filtration system for your tank that reduces NO3 to free N, giving a (mostly) complete nitrogen cycle. This is why a mature LR tank can be NO3 free, while with decorative rock, NO3 builds and requires water changes for dilution.

Wayne · #7 01-22-2012, 04:12 PM

If was doing a drop off I would strongly consider using dry rock so that you can place and glue everything at your pace. Then as suggested seed it with good quality live rock for a few months and then you should be pest free and good to go

fishytime · #8 01-22-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Not exactly. First, you don't cure the rock, since it had no die-off. Second, the difference between a cycled tank (not producing NH3/4) and having functional live rock, is the presence of denitrifying bacteria deep in the pores of the rock. This is going to take much longer than a couple of weeks. With dry rock in a NH3 free tank, you have pretty rocks. With real live rock, you have a filtration system for your tank that reduces NO3 to free N, giving a (mostly) complete nitrogen cycle. This is why a mature LR tank can be NO3 free, while with decorative rock, NO3 builds and requires water changes for dilution.

thanks for that post Brad.....Ive been trying as much as I can to get this point through to people......we are seeing a lot of people coming to the shop with this problem or that problem and through talking out their systems we find out that they have used a large percentage of dead rock and have stocked the tank wayyyyy to fast for the colonizing bacteria to
"catch up"....... maybe we can sweet talk Mindy into doing a "dead rock" article and make it a "sticky"?

RedCoralEdmonton · #9 01-22-2012, 05:12 PM

^totally agree with what Brad and Doug are saying.... same problem here in Edmonton....

Steve

Aquattro · #10 01-22-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishytime

maybe we can sweet talk Mindy into doing a "dead rock" article and make it a "sticky"?

Ok. You ask

I think one of the most, if not THE most important things in building a reef is the rock. People are willing to spend thousands on lights, but without the right rock to build on, the lights are just going to grow problems.

Dry rock is a viable alternative, IF you have the patience. I know patience is not something I personally have much of....