Hawaiian Ornamental Fishing Ban PASSED

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Myka

hobbyists play an important role in the CONSERVATION of wild reefs.

ah but we don't. while we would all like to think we are helping the conservation of wild reefs in no way are we doing so. to be in that catagory we would have to be restocking the reefs with corals or fish from our tank, which for one is totaly ileagal. we do go towards that way with frag swaps and such but the amount we trade makes no impact on the amount of wild harvest.

while we like to think different the only thing our hobby does is statisfly our own personal need or want for a decoration and actualy harms the reef. if there was no aquarium industry we would not have countrys blowing up reefs for live rock, using cyanide to catch fish which also kills sections of reef, or even pulling corals out of there natural settings in mannors which destroy corals around it.

I suport total bans in spicific areas (like areas where easy colection in possible) as the spin off of this is other areas are more expensive to fish which will raise the price of fish. once this happens then groups will look more into captive breeding programs, which if the right permissions and permits are obtained they can fish in total ban areas for fish for the programs.

from personaly experiance with total bans on fishing of yellow tangs I can tell you that when I first started swimming in hunama (sp) bay the only fish you would see is parrot fish. 25 years later I see people sending back pictures of tangs when they go there.. this is a direct result of gathering closures and shows they work to replenish populations.

I think what I would like to see is a total ban of free fishing with in say 100 miles of hawaii and winth in that limit have a fishery set up where you have to buy a special licience and fish to limits in a spicif mannor to limit the impact of the fishing. then they can adjust limits every year to mannage the population.

now I am still checing on a few articles but I haven't found anything that proposes a total ban on having fish, or captive breeding programs yet except for the ones PETA has been trying to push for the last 20 years and the goverment pretty much ignores them now.....

the other thing we have to remember is that hawaii is part of the USA where we have the political set up and mind set to put in and enforce bans and limited fisheries, as for this spilling over to other countries I don't think we have to worry about that as most of the fish for our hobby come from countries with totaly different goverment styles and a general lack of enforcment.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

ok, found the one article.. these are the same people that have put up a total of 8 proposals over the last 11 to 15 years and every one has been turned down by the state of Hawaii. do you realy think this one is going to go through when the stats position is sustainability, they do have to hear the proposal and every couple years this same panic goes around the hobby boards... and every time nothing happens.. Hawaii is opposit of what they group states.. they use the aquarium industry to atract visitors and such.. there are about 10 "tanks you must see" in wikiki alone.. hotels stores ect.. if the state was leaning towards this proposal or any of the others in the last so many years why do they keep giving out permits for busines and such to have large aquariums which include up to 100 yellow tangs in each one....

don't think we have anything to worry about here.

Steve

[jorjef]

This deserves the Wisers "slow clap". and yes the sky is not falling!. What I read is this is the equivelant of a RM telling the province what laws they should adopt. They are nothing more than a bunch of tree hugging granola eating earth muffins with a sprinkling of tour operators in competition with divers collecting fish. It was "county council " not the fisheries or state passing a "nonbinding resolution" what ever the hell that is, but it doesn't sound too serious.

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

ok, found the one article.. these are the same people that have put up a total of 8 proposals over the last 11 to 15 years and every one has been turned down by the state of Hawaii. do you realy think this one is going to go through when the stats position is sustainability, they do have to hear the proposal and every couple years this same panic goes around the hobby boards... and every time nothing happens.. Hawaii is opposit of what they group states.. they use the aquarium industry to atract visitors and such.. there are about 10 "tanks you must see" in wikiki alone.. hotels stores ect.. if the state was leaning towards this proposal or any of the others in the last so many years why do they keep giving out permits for busines and such to have large aquariums which include up to 100 yellow tangs in each one....

don't think we have anything to worry about here.

Steve

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Non-binding resolutions are usually NOT worth the paper they're written on. Non-binding means they can say whatever they want and nobody in charge needs to implement those "suggestions".

That's why in the NHL, they go to "binding arbitration" otherwise the players and GMs know that it is all a waste of time and effort.

[gobytron]

Ugh...
It IS a good thing Myka.

Just not for us.

For the fish, for the oceans, while you may believe we can be beneficial to these animals in the best of cases scenrio, the fact is, they are better off in the ocean no matter what...as long as the ocean remains able to supprt them.

Stop collection and protect these same habitats that collection is banned in and you have yourself the best case sceanrio for the fish...

I get why you feel so strongly there is a happy medium but it's only a medium for us and not for the animals themselves.

It's hard not to be selfish in a situation like this, but I think no matter which way you look at it the oceans and reefs especially would be better off without our meddling.

Habitat/environment protection is key and without it, any ban is senseless but the next largest mitigating factor to the continued survival of any trade related animal is us.

Looking at it any other way, IME, is seeing only the side that appeals to u as hobbyists....but I do get where you're coming from.

[Myka]

There is a petition against the ban that you can sign here: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...-ban/sign.html

Ret Talbot recently traveled to Hawaii and is there now investigating the state of affairs over there in this matter.

Originally Posted by Ret Talbot

The current status is that all the major stakeholders are using the resource with various rules and regulations in place to try to mitigate controversy and maintain sustainability. For marine aquarium fishers, about 35 percent of this coastline is off limits to all aquarium collection. In addition, new bag limits and a 40-species white list are coming online very shortly. A limited entry scheme waits in the wings. The state aquatic biologists believe, with these management measures in place and given how well studied the fishery is, the West Hawai’i marine aquarium fishery can be fished sustainably. Dr. William Walsh, an aquatic biologist with Hawai’i Division of Aquatic Resources (DAR) goes so far as to say, “If we can’t successfully manage the aquarium fishery, what hope is there for management of our other fisheries here in Hawai’i?”

Clearly not everyone agrees. In the most simplistic terms (and let me be clear, there really is nothing simple about what’s going on here), there remain those who, despite data presented by the State, are against the marine aquarium trade and who want the aquarium fishery here and elsewhere shut down. The best-known names on the anti-trade side of the debate are individuals like Robert Wintner (aka Snorkel Bob) and Rene Umberger, but there are also others including Brenda Ford, the Hawai’i County Council Member responsible for bringing the two most recent pieces of anti-trade legislation to a Council vote. Also on the anti-trade side of the debate are, generally speaking, the tour dive operators. Many cultural practitioners, although by no means all, are also skeptical of the trade. Finally, in terms of organizational opposition, there are, amongst others, Sea Shepherd, For the Fish, and the Humane Society of the United States.

On the pro-trade side are, not surprisingly, the commercial aquarium fishers who make a living collecting fishes and non-coral invertebrates for the trade—people like the president of the Big Island Association of Aquarium Fishermen (BIAFF), Bob Hajek, and others I have come to know while researching the trade in Hawai’i including Tony Nahacky, Jim Lovell, David Dart, Eric and Kim Koch, and others. In terms of organizational support for the aquarium trade, there is the aforementioned BIAFF, which has attempted, as I wrote in “Postcards from Hawaii” (Jan/Feb issue of CORAL Magazine), to give the pro-trade side a singular voice. Also on the pro-trade side is, and I realize this is a controversial statement, the State. The State of Hawai’i, while not pro- or anti-aquarium trade per se, has consistently legislated in favor of a sustainable and robust marine aquarium fishery statewide. The marine aquarium fishery is, after all, the second most profitable inshore fishery behind the Main Hawaiian Island (MHI) deep-seven bottomfish fishery.

Are the State’s biologists correct? Can the marine aquarium fishery be well managed and sustainable? Or should it not even be considered a fishery in the first place, as Wintner has contended when I have interviewed him in the past? Does it even matter if it is sustainable or not in a traditional fisheries management sense when, as some have claimed, the taking of fishes from the reef for aquaria is nothing short of cruelty to animals and wildlife trafficking for the pet trade? These are all complex questions…

…especially when one eats mahi-mahi or any of the many other species of fishes commonly harvested for food in Hawaiian waters. For me, I have seen nothing to suggest the marine aquarium fishery in Hawai’i cannot be managed as a sustainable commercial fishery in the same way food fisheries can. I have not seen data to support the devastation purported in the two most recent resolutions seeking a ban on aquarium collection, although I have repeatedly requested that data from those on the anti-trade side of the debate. Yet here I am again on the lava-strewn shoreline of Big Island’s Kona Coast. Here I am once again asking many of the same questions to many of the same people.

Will the marine aquarium trade in Hawai’i emerge a model of a robust and sustainable commercial fishery, or will the legislative efforts of those against aquarium collection in Hawai’i become the blueprint for federal policy on the trade? Perhaps that is the most important question of all and the reason we all should be watching Hawai'i closely.

Check out the full blog here: http://www.masna.org/Blog/tabid/430/...in-Hawaii.aspx

[banditpowdercoat]

I have allways wondered why wild fish are cheaper. I mean, you buy Wild Salmon, it costs a lot more than farmed Salmon. Why are our fish any different. I am all for preserving the oceans, getting CB instead of Wild. Regulate the collection, don't just ban it outright.

It's like saying Cars kill to many people, so instead of all the regulations we have, were just going to ban them all together.. Ya that really makes sense....

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by gobytron

Ugh...
It IS a good thing Myka.

Just not for us.

For the fish, for the oceans, while you may believe we can be beneficial to these animals in the best of cases scenrio, the fact is, they are better off in the ocean no matter what...as long as the ocean remains able to supprt them.

Stop collection and protect these same habitats that collection is banned in and you have yourself the best case sceanrio for the fish...

I get why you feel so strongly there is a happy medium but it's only a medium for us and not for the animals themselves.

It's hard not to be selfish in a situation like this, but I think no matter which way you look at it the oceans and reefs especially would be better off without our meddling.

Habitat/environment protection is key and without it, any ban is senseless but the next largest mitigating factor to the continued survival of any trade related animal is us.

Looking at it any other way, IME, is seeing only the side that appeals to u as hobbyists....but I do get where you're coming from.

Very well said

[Aquaria]

I can't speak for everyone but I'm personally glad I won't get to see hawiian cleaner wrasses dieing in LFS tanks any more. so sad watching them starve to death and must I mention moorish idols? I know there range is huge but at least they won't be collected in Hawaii now

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Aquaria

I can't speak for everyone but I'm personally glad I won't get to see hawiian cleaner wrasses dieing in LFS tanks any more. so sad watching them starve to death and must I mention moorish idols? I know there range is huge but at least they won't be collected in Hawaii now

It wouldn't take a whole lot of effort to make collection limits on these fish (and other "sensitive" species) which would drive up the price and help to prevent "the average hobbyist" from acquiring them. The governing body is already in place (DAR). The only thing needing to happen are regulations on collecting limits.

Who wants to buy a $300 that is difficult to keep alive? Mostly only experts that know they can do it. I would LOVE to have a Moorish Idol, but I know I probably can't keep it which is enough for me to refuse to try.

I was in an LFS not too long ago where a customer was mad because a Moorish Idol died before he could buy it. I tried to tactfully explain why he would be a moron to buy it (he's a newbie in the sw world), but he wouldn't hear any of it. Something tells me he might have thought twice if the fish was $300 instead of $50. I personally don't believe that fish like the Moorish Idol and Cleaner Wrasse should be readily available to any hobbyist, and especially not for the insanely low prices they are offered at.

If we can't get regulations governing the export of fish from their country of origin then maybe we could put governing regulations on fishes being imported. Maybe sensitive species could have high import taxes which are forwarded to research institutes. There are a lot of ways that these issues in question could be improved.