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#1
10-14-2011, 05:17 PM
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#2
10-14-2011, 05:49 PM
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#3
10-14-2011, 05:58 PM
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I did.
And in these very specific cases, with very dedicated hobbyists or specific species of fish that CAN be bred in the environment that the average hobbyist can provide your logic stands... I just dont believe that it will stick for the majority of species out there that are collected for this hobby. The red tailed shark is just one example. I have no research behind this, but my best guess would leave me to believe there are several, if not hundreds of species that are no longer in existence or endangered that this hobby is directly or at least partly responsible for. Again, I restate that I would support it if there were a stringent qualifying procedure a hobbysist had to go through to be able to attempt the husbandry of any banned specimens but that opening it up for anyone to do is a recipe for failure.
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#4
10-14-2011, 06:07 PM
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Why not put legislation in place that makes it more difficult and costly (not impossible) to obtain wild caught livestock? Why can we buy wild caught Banggai Cardinals and Clownfish en masse when the average hobbyist can raise them successfully? Why not raise the price on species with lower survival rates and lower wild populations? Why not raise the price particularly on wild caught species that are currently regularly captive bred? Not only would this increase the price of captive bred fish by increasing the profitability for captive breeders and thus encouraging captive breeders, but would also help protect those species in the wild. It would be a start, and an action I think needs to take place to show that us hobbyists DO care about wild reefs and their future. Right now we look like pilferers.
The average hobbyist doesn't know the different between captive bred and captive raised. Hobbyists need to be educated. Last edited by Myka; 10-14-2011 at 06:14 PM.
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#5
10-14-2011, 06:34 PM
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sounds like a good alternative plan...though an incredible amount of work to allocate those specific parameters for each species.
speaking as a hobbyist of course. unfortunately, I doubt many of the policy makers are hobbyists and they see things in a very different light. Personally I would love to pay 100$ for a Gramma Loreto... I'm amazed such an incredible species of fish can be had for 24.95. Or 300$ for a ribbon eel with their captive life expectancy. An outright ban will bring prices up for sure, which in turn could create a renewed interest by policy makers in this industry. This Ban could turn out to be the start of the exact scenario you've outlined.
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#6
10-14-2011, 07:00 PM
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I do think that it is too easy for hobbyists to acquire wild caught fish. LFS need to get on the boat too and start having separate systems for captive bred species so that the fish can actually be marketed the way they should be - as disease free! Most LFS just put the captive bred fish in with wild caught and they pick up diseases from the wild caught fish. Kinda makes a moot point. Albeit captive bred fish always feed better, and stress less.
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#7
10-14-2011, 07:32 PM
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Just because the industry dies one day does not mean it cant come back later with different metrics...
Plus, well always have developing and third world countries too desperate for cash to care about the ethics or sustainability of the practice to give it up.
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#8
10-16-2011, 04:20 PM
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Why is it so bad to protect the ocean. I know you educate yourself well, so I am not going to try convince you, but, we protect other life forms, why not fish? I made mistakes early on... as we all have... and partly because the LFS says ok. Maybe its time to start approaching the LFS on this. They make money selling unsuitable fish because we let them. Anyone walk into their favorite shop and question them on fish such as wild benggai? I have and was met by defensiveness. Myka this hobby will die on its own if it has no regulations. Over collection is a fact. Captive bred SHOULD be less expensive, but these facilities need to be maintained and we catch the brunt for a .25 cent fish that costs $25. Breeder needs profit. Then shipping. LFS needs profit. I worked for and LFS and know cost is ridiculously low on individual specimens compared to retail... but its the overhead. Again. Complete ban no. Conservation of delicate species Yes. I personally love snorkelling and on two occasions observed illegal collection. Once in Jamaica (4' seafan for drying) and once in Cuba. Sad. I tried to educate them on coral and impact... but money talks. I know sea fans are not fish... but still in the same game. Reefing is great.
__________________
 My 70 Gallon build: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66478 My Mandarin Paradise: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72762 I wonder... does anyone care enough to read signatures if you make them really small? I would not. I would probably moan and complain, read three words and swear once or twice. But since you made it this far, please rate my builds. 
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#9
10-16-2011, 04:39 PM
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[quote=Hawaii Division of Aquatic Resources DAR]The mission of the Division of Aquatic Resources is to manage, conserve and restore the state's unique aquatic resources and ecosystems for present and future generations. The DAR manages the state's aquatic resources and ecosystems through programs in commercial fisheries and resource enhancement; aquatic resources protection, habitat enhancement, and education; and recreational fisheries. Major program areas include projects to manage or enhance fisheries for long-term sustainability of the resources, protect and restore the aquatic environment, protect native and resident aquatic species and their habitat, and provide facilities and opportunities for recreational fishing.[quote] Quote:
There are very few breeders making money out there because the prices are so low. Breeders have to push quantity. Producing "designer clowns" has helped as well.
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#10
10-16-2011, 04:47 PM
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Again... I know you educate yourself so I am not debating your points.
But overhead... yes.. building costs... but in this position I use it as anything that eats into profit margins. I know it is cities and shipping. 100%. Who pays that? LFS. Then they pass it along to us and they won't swallow that for anyone. I know you are talking FULL ban... and I also mentioned I do not agree that is the way to go. So come on pretty lady.. go easy on me. I'm on your side... with other thoughts!
__________________
My 70 Gallon build: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66478 My Mandarin Paradise: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72762 I wonder... does anyone care enough to read signatures if you make them really small? I would not. I would probably moan and complain, read three words and swear once or twice. But since you made it this far, please rate my builds.
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