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#52
10-04-2011, 11:15 AM
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What type of copper did you put in there? Also did you check for ammonia? this is a reason I like to use hyposalinity to cure ich (if it was really ich) as you can have liverock and that's a good way to avoid ammonia buildup. With copper, you can't have anything and you cannot put any dechlorinator to neutralize copper if you are using Cupramine.
So the only way to remove deadly ammonia is to do water change and then mesure copper again and redose accordingly. Ammonia can build up really fast in a small tank loaded with fish and it is very deadly at high PH. Copper is toxic as well to the fish. Quote:
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#53
10-04-2011, 12:39 PM
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I checked the ammonia after they died, it was at 0.25 but I wasn't sure if the copper was giving it a false reading. I'm using cupramine, there is nothing else in the tank. I will get a water change ready today, will pick up an airstone as well. I have to find a seachem copper test as well, we have the API test. Others look ok this morning, going to feed them and see how they respond.
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#56
10-05-2011, 04:35 AM
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Everyone else seems ok for now. Checked the copper tonight, it's at .03 so I don't think I overdosed the tank, was probably stress. I noticed the ich on them first and maybe they were worse than I thought. Hope this is the worst of it.
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#57
10-05-2011, 01:43 PM
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I think they were probably too far gone already. Cupramine is one of the safest copper treatment around as lons as there is no water treatment (dechlorinator like Prime) added to the water.
Your clowns probably had their gills very much dammaged already and the stress of moving plus maybe a lower level of oxygen in the QT may have done the rest. Since you are going through all this trouble, I would leave the main tank empty of fish for 8 weeks of possible. .25 ammonia is too much, as ammonia is very very toxic at PH above 7 and the higher the PH the faster the ammonia will kill a fish. Higher temperature make that ever worse. It's too bad that with such level of ammonia you cannot even use an ammonia detoxyfier because it will interfear with the copper treatment. All you can do is to water change and redose the copper. Try also to keep the water temperature a bit lower as ammonia toxicyty is also dependant on the temperature and the higher the temp the more it is dammaging. for exemple, at 78 F and PH of 8.3, the ammonia will kill a fish or seriously injure it at level of only 0.21 and you already have 0.25 more or less. Here is a chart for ammonia toxicity: http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html Do not let your ph rise too much during this treatment for that reason and use a lower temperature, maybe 75F would be better. Quote:
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#58
10-06-2011, 03:04 AM
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I too think the clowns were really sick. My blenny seemed to be doing a bit better for a few days last week, then noticed that he was again sitting high on the rocks beside one of the power heads, think to try to get more oxygen. He died this morning. I think he had ich really bad as well, some mornings he was completely white around mouth and gills, would clear during the day then be bad again next day.
I added an airstone yesterday to the qt and noticed my cardinals in a corner barely breathing and my chromis was swimming at an accelerated pace, couldn't figure out what was going on, turned the airstone off, cardinals started to swim and chromis settled down. No more airstone. My ammonia is still close to .25, ph is 8.1, i have dropped the temp down, thermonitor doesn't show settings so have to check on the side of the tank in a bit, was at 78. Fish ate a bit this morning, haven't done a water change yet as I can't get the dosing right in my water change bucket and don't want to add to tank until I get it. So I'm down to 4 fish. I can see see spots on the angel, so keep on going. I have no plans to put the fish back until they are clear and 8 weeks have passed. I am not going thru this again!!
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#59
10-06-2011, 06:11 PM
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At this PH and at this level of ammonia, your fish gills might burn and they might not survive. 78F is too much and the dissolve oxygen at this temperature is lower. I would let the temperature go down to 76. That will help for the oxygen and also for the ammonia.
I think when dosing copper it is probably better to have 2 tanks so that there is always a fresh supply of water at the right temperature and at the right copper concentration if a large water change must be done. Quote:
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#60
10-06-2011, 07:26 PM
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Okay here's my version of the ugly reality.... Stop now before you frustrate yourself to the point of throwing in the towel completely and selling your system. You have 4 fish left, most not overly expensive fish , green chromis, 2 Bangaii, and a Flame Angel. Let them be if they live they live but adding more of this that and everything else to save them could be making things worse. With them weak to begin with, the stress of moving and being in a Hospital tank and the forever changing water conditions it might be better to just let things stabilize and hope for the best.
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Hopefully this straitens itself out quick.
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