best frozen foods ?

[Myka]

Originally Posted by fishytime

so your sayin that a freshwater shrimp eating a freshwater diet will have have the same nutritional benefits to our saltwater fish as a saltwater shrimp with a saltwater diet?

I do think there is a difference, but I don't think it is significant enough to be concerned about. For the most part, the shrimp would have little nutritional differences even in a lab. The fatty acid profile would differ a bit, but it also differs from mackerel to sole. A shark and a trout are a bit different from each other, but a freshwater shrimp and a saltwater shrimp...not so much. Honestly, I don't think it makes that much difference. Especially when there are members of the same genus within both freshwater and saltwater eco-systems. If it made a big difference you wouldn't see so many breeders using mysis.

You don't ruffle my feathers. You do bring up a good point, albeit it's arguing Porsche over Mercedes...there isn't a bad choice!

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by Myka

If it made a big difference you wouldn't see so many breeders using mysis.

probably because there hasnt been an economical alternative(or the market to support it) until recently.......much easier and more economical to harvest shrimp from a freshwater lake in BF nowhere Canada than it is to collect and harvest it from the ocean

[Myka]

If you want to get into details, most breeders use homemade diets, but PE mysis is often a part of it. Lots of clownfish breeders just use pellets/flake.

People have been collecting and using/selling all sorts of saltwater plankton for like ever Doug. Hikari or HBH or Sanfran Plankton and mysis are all same price.

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by Myka

People have been collecting and using/selling all sorts of saltwater plankton for like ever Doug. Hikari or HBH or Sanfran Plankton and mysis are all same price.

are you forgetting, Mindy, that I probably have a generation on you.......sally's and others started with plankton based foods in the nineties....... fairly recent in the grand scheme of things

[Madreefer]

Wow a simple question sure turned in to alot of bickering. I take it Red Coral does'nt sell PE Mysis? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but what does age really have to do with smarts?

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

Wow a simple question sure turned in to alot of bickering. I take it Red Coral does'nt sell PE Mysis? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but what does age really have to do with smarts?

nope.....RC sells PE mysis too......and as I stated before......I never said PE mysis was bad.....I just dont like when people automatically dismiss something because they are used to and are trained to believe in something else......I just feel I, as a reefer am trying to replicate, to the best of my ability, my little salty friends environment......from what I feed, to the salt I use(H2Ocean(a naturally evaporated salt))....... and I mention the age thing because I have been keeping fish for close to 25 years...... well before specialty foods like plankton were available

[Parker]

Originally Posted by fishytime

to the salt I use(H2Ocean(a naturally evaporated salt))

Off topic,

How do you like that salt? I'm just finishing off my third pail of it and I think I'm going to continue to use it but its always nice to hear other peoples thoughts.

[TimT]

I have hesitated to say anything as my sponsorship of CanReef is not yet in place. However, since it will be shortly, I would like to clarify a few points and add a few observations.

Mysis shrimp are harvested from the Okanagan Lake in BC. The Mysis life cycle is that they rise to shallower waters at night and then are deeper in the lake near the bottom during the day. They are normally caught at night.(info from P.E. in a personal conversation back in 2000).

Cyclopeeze are from a freshwater lake in Canada.

Euphasia pacifica, which is the shrimp in Ocean Fresh Pacifica Plankton is harvested in the coastal waters of B.C. It is frozen immediately after capture and Ocean Fresh processes the shrimp in that frozen state. When you thaw out Ocean Fresh Pacifica Plankton it will be the first time it has ever been thawed since it was caught. There are many other producers of plankton but they are all thawing, rinsing the product, adding about 40% water and then refreezing. Some process it in the US and others process it in China. Ocean Fresh is more costly than the competitors as Pacifica Plankton is all plankton and NO water and processed in BC.

Euphasia pacifica is one of the primary ingredients in the pellet mix that some of the commercial food fish hatcheries use.

The reason that Sockeye Salmon and Coho Salmon have pinkish red flesh is due to feeding on Euphasia pacifica(Pacifica Plankton) in the wild. It is the high levels of Astaxanthin in the Euphasia pacifica(Pacifica Plankton) that causes this.

I have found that wild fish will immediately recognize this as a food source. Hatchery Bred Fish on the other hand will prefer flake or pellet as that is what they are used to. I have observed this in thousands of fish over ten+ years as a wholesaler. I have had fish that were obligate coral feeders eat the Pacfica Plankton. I have had two different species of fish lay egg masses in my fish holding systems. I attribute that to the regular diet of Pacfica Plankton that they received. The fish were Neopomacentrus azysron(bare tank) and Valenciennia longipinnus(bare tank with a sand bottom and pvc pipe).

Corals also have the same reaction to Pacfica Plankton as wild fish do. Everything from Acans to Dendro's to Fungia to Trachyphyllia will immediately extend their polyps in a feeding response.

There has been a lot of Internet discussions about feeding Goldfish to predatory marine fish... a freshwater food source to a marine fish. I have trained numerous Lionfish and Eels to eat Pacifica Plankton.

In my opinion adding Selcon type additives to Pacifica Plankton is not necessary as the nutritional profile is already complete. Selcon type additives are great for Brine Shrimp but not needed for the Pacifica. Save your money for corals :-).

Seahorses will eat the Pacifica Plankton before Mysis when both feeds are added to the tank at the same time.

I have used PE Mysis and Pacifica Plankton and they are both high quality feeds. Your fish will only do better by your feeding them these foods. I feel that the nutritional profile of Pacifica Plankton is superior to mysis as it is a marine source. As well it does not expend it's energy reserves swimming 500 feet from the bottom of the lake to near the surface to feed and get caught.

Cheers,
Tim

[daniella3d]

Interesting, then why my copperband don't want to eat the pacifica plankton? he just spit them out and does not touch it after that, but he does heat the PE mysis.

BTW, Acans and dendro will eat anything...so they are not really a reference here.

just curious to see where you got your info on the nutritional profile of them? Here is what I found:

PE Mysis
protein - 69.5%
fat 8.35%
Fiber 2.75%
EPA 15.09% total Fatty Acid
DHA 10.59% total Fatty Acid

Hikari Mysis
protein - 70%
fat 6.7%
fiber 13%

SFB Mysis
Protein 46%
Fat 5.5%
Fiber 3.7%

SFB Krill:
protein 75%
Fat 28%
Fiber 8%

Argent Labs Dried Krill
Protein 71 %
Fat 10.9%
Carbohydrates 8.7%
*This one includes HUFA analysis, its the percent of all fat, not all matter*
HUFA’s 40.8%
EPA 18.4%
DHA 11.1%

Hikari Plankton (I believe it Euphausia pacifica, a type of krill)
Protein: 57%
Fat: 7%
fiber 16%

Originally Posted by TimT

I have found that wild fish will immediately recognize this as a food source.

Corals also have the same reaction to Pacfica Plankton as wild fish do. Everything from Acans to Dendro's to Fungia to Trachyphyllia will immediately extend their polyps in a feeding response.

I feel that the nutritional profile of Pacifica Plankton is superior to mysis as it is a marine source. As well it does not expend it's energy reserves swimming 500 feet from the bottom of the lake to near the surface to feed and get caught.

Cheers,
Tim

[dsaundry]

Originally Posted by TimT
I have found that wild fish will immediately recognize this as a food source.

Corals also have the same reaction to Pacfica Plankton as wild fish do. Everything from Acans to Dendro's to Fungia to Trachyphyllia will immediately extend their polyps in a feeding response.

I feel that the nutritional profile of Pacifica Plankton is superior to mysis as it is a marine source. As well it does not expend it's energy reserves swimming 500 feet from the bottom of the lake to near the surface to feed and get caught.

Cheers,
Tim

I think Tim's answer was correct to this as well. If you are only going to highlight partial responses. His full quote stated the following.

I have used PE Mysis and Pacifica Plankton and they are both high quality feeds. Your fish will only do better by your feeding them these foods. I feel that the nutritional profile of Pacifica Plankton is superior to mysis as it is a marine source. As well it does not expend it's energy reserves swimming 500 feet from the bottom of the lake to near the surface to feed and get caught.

So I will restate that this is strictly an opinion forum from fellow members. So whether you use Hikari, or PE Mysis or Pacifica Plankton or pellets or Hot Dogs....whatever you find works best...use them! My Copperband will hardly touch plankton but gobbles down bloodworms{doesn't matter what brand} I am always open to try new types of food and watch how my fish react to them, if I find something they like I will reuse it, if they don't like it it's kept as a memory and I won't use it again. Am I a die hard ingredient reader??? Most of the time-yes, however without beating a dead horse here, I think that most of the higher end food you can get from your lfs or supplier is usually fairly decent. How your fish take to it is another story. I have had fish that won't touch certain foods and later had the same type of fish gobble them up. So nobody can tell me that for the most part a certain type of marine fish will only eat one type of food as there always seems to be an exception to the rule. Just look at some of the carnivorous fish that go at Nori. Again this is a forum where it is each members opinion of what they think is the best fish food. If you have a loyalty to what works best for you then great, but what works best for one doesn't always work for another, so whether one foods ingredients seem higher and better in writing, if your fish doesn't like it....it's a waste of money. As with human beings, while some might like the Keg for steak others are happy with a sirloin burger from A+W, fish have their favorite foods as well, so Vive la Difference.