Do I need to reinforce the floor?

[Gripenfelter]

Originally Posted by Myka

You're going to crack the tiles and/or dislodge them or the grout if you put that big tank on there without a lot of reinforcement.

Whoever told you that you will crack the concrete below was probably right (it won't "shatter" though). Do you know how thick it is? You would probably have to cut out a similar shape to your tank (except bigger each direction), and dig out the dirt below to pour a thick footing to put the jack posts on. Depends how badly you want to put the tank there I suppose!

My home builder told me it would crack. Sorry I said shatter. He said crack.

The concrete floor in the basement is 5" thick I believe. The house sits on 24 concrete piles with the exterior walls and centre steel post resting on the piles.

[Myka]

I'm not familiar with prairie building codes (my carpentry experience was in BC), why is your house on piles? I'm assuming you're calling it a basement because it is a living space under the tank, right? With a living space below it could be quite the eyesore to reinforce the floor. Why don't you just get your home builder to come in and suggest a way to reinforce the floor?

Personally, I would just figure out a different way to position the tank.

[Gripenfelter]

Originally Posted by Myka

I'm not familiar with prairie building codes (my carpentry experience was in BC), why is your house on piles? I'm assuming you're calling it a basement because it is a living space under the tank, right? With a living space below it could be quite the eyesore to reinforce the floor. Why don't you just get your home builder to come in and suggest a way to reinforce the floor?

Personally, I would just figure out a different way to position the tank.

Home builder suggested slipping in another floor joist and connecting the bottoms of the joists together with 8 foot 2x4s or one steel beam.

Just curious if anyone else had any better ideas.

Wish I had my blue prints handy. Reinforcing the joists will not be an eye sore because it will be behind a suspended ceiling.

Gonna put the sump in the basement.

[Myka]

Is the ceiling dropped in the basement or open floor joists or?

You could probably do it with a steel beam, but I would be inclined to use 2 or 3 smaller ones than one big one just to get a lower profile on the underside of the floor. You would have to use good hangers to mount the beam underneath and span at least the 2 joists under the tank and then at least another 2 on either side so the beam(s) would meet with 6 joists.

[Gripenfelter]

It's an office type tile ceiling. Very easy to expose the joists.

I'll look into more joists thanks.

[Myka]

You're welcome.

You have space between the joists and the dropped ceiling? I'm just wondering if you have space to hide the beam(s).

I don't think 2x4's are going to be enough, and I don't think you need to add another joist (that's a real pain in @$$ to do). You want to transfer some of the weight from the 2 loaded joists onto other joists (whether you are using jack posts or a beam or WHY). If you use hangers to mount a small steel beam(s) perpendicular to the joists and attach them to neighbouring joists you can transfer the weight by preventing flex. Need good hangers and good hanger nails. i bet you would only need 4" steel beams.

[sphelps]

If access isn't an issue you could just bulkhead in the two supporting joists by adding layers of plywood to each side of the two joists. Add 3-4 layers each side, glue and screw and stagger the seams to span the 15 foot length. Just make sure the ends are properly supported on the concrete wall.

With the floor properly supported, you could build a stand that distributes the weight properly and if you add a layer of high density foam between the floor and the stand you shouldn't break any tiles. Grout lines might crack but that's easy fix, plus given it's marble or stone you probably wouldn't notice anyway.

[Gripenfelter]

Originally Posted by Myka

You're welcome.

You have space between the joists and the dropped ceiling? I'm just wondering if you have space to hide the beam(s).

I don't think 2x4's are going to be enough, and I don't think you need to add another joist (that's a real pain in @$$ to do). You want to transfer some of the weight from the 2 loaded joists onto other joists (whether you are using jack posts or a beam or WHY). If you use hangers to mount a small steel beam(s) perpendicular to the joists and attach them to neighbouring joists you can transfer the weight by preventing flex. Need good hangers and good hanger nails. i bet you would only need 4" steel beams.

Where would I get steel beams from? Home Depot? Rona? McDiarmid Lumber?

Originally Posted by sphelps

If access isn't an issue you could just bulkhead in the two supporting joists by adding layers of plywood to each side of the two joists. Add 3-4 layers each side, glue and screw and stagger the seams to span the 15 foot length. Just make sure the ends are properly supported on the concrete wall.

With the floor properly supported, you could build a stand that distributes the weight properly and if you add a layer of high density foam between the floor and the stand you shouldn't break any tiles. Grout lines might crack but that's easy fix, plus given it's marble or stone you probably wouldn't notice anyway.

Grout is epoxy so it stays flexible.

Not sure quite what you mean to do with the plywood.

[mike31154]

I've been gathering the pieces and planning for a set up somewhat similar to what you have in mind with basement sump. Decided to build a bit of a fish room more or less under the area the display will sit. It's about 6' x 5' and in addition to housing sump, fuge, etc etc, it should take care of any support issues that may arise. The floor joist span in that area is 9' & goes from outside wall to another support at the central chimney. Each side of that the span is longer, 11' to a wall that separates the basement roughly in half down the center. Joist support where they meet the chimney blocks looks a little iffy, appears there's just a cross member attached to the longer joists each side of the chimney. This is another reason I feel better about having the extra support the fish room framing will provide. Here's a pic, not great but should give an idea.




The plan is for a custom tank in the 5' range & it will be positioned above the far wall framing in the photo. This is a 5' span & top framing is directly under the joist, so should be well supported. Left side of photo you can just see the last 2x4 of the 6' wall. Anyhow, it appears you're still in the planning phase & with basement sump I thought I'd throw the idea out there for a fish room, two birds with one stone. Either way, I'd recommend some additional support.

[Gripenfelter]

Thanks Mike. We eventually will frame in the basement but the problem is I was told that you should never let the basement framing touch the ceiling because the floor is a floating floor and can move. As the house settles the basement floor can crack and move but the upper floors don't. But if you attach the basement framed walls to the floor and joists they will push or pull on the upper floors.

Our house is only 2 yrs old so a lot of settling still involved.