Milad's 72in LED build

[phi delt reefer]

updates?

[Milad]

Originally Posted by phi delt reefer

updates?

Only update I have is im waiting on the new LEDs/Boards to get to me. I was assured they would be ready for production within the next 5 weeks.

I do have to say, ive done much more research into corals and what they need in terms of light and this build is going to be interesting.

[KevinK]

Originally Posted by Milad

Only update I have is im waiting on the new LEDs/Boards to get to me. I was assured they would be ready for production within the next 5 weeks.

I do have to say, ive done much more research into corals and what they need in terms of light and this build is going to be interesting.

I do have to say, ive done much more research into corals and what they need in terms of light and this build is going to be interesting


do you mind to share this info, and background, to bad for that knowledge to stay wihit you, while you could share !!

[Milad]

Originally Posted by KevinK

I do have to say, ive done much more research into corals and what they need in terms of light and this build is going to be interesting


do you mind to share this info, and background, to bad for that knowledge to stay wihit you, while you could share !!

For you Kevin, ill share. But you must understand im not an expert on what im about to talk about, ive just been really sticking my nose in books, articles, studies to get the information I need.


There is alot of science behind plants/corals growth. They have what is called chlorophyll A and Chlorophyll B. There is much more A than B but there both important.

A peeks at 425ish 453ish and 660ish. B peeks at 455 and 660.
The LEDs we bring in are the Royal Blue which peeks @ 455. This is great. We also now have an ultra violet that peeks at 425. Again, amazing for the corals/plants.

What we currently don't have is something that peeks at 660. We are working with a manufacturer to bring in a 455 + 660 LED. This would be an LED that is mixed, which is also called magenta. So very pink, not super nice to look at but in theory should make corals go crazy - Similar to a fat kid in a candy store.

What im going to be testing is running these magenta LEDs when I am not home. Basically right in the middle of the day so the corals can color up and grow. Before I get home, they would be off so you see the nice pleasant 14k look. In the future I may also add a motion sensor to have the magenta LEDs shut off is someone is near by the tank.

So what everyone has been doing works great. Royal Blue and Cool Whites are really popping corals, making them grow, etc. What im going to try to do is take it to the next level and see if I can get the correct mix of Royal Blue and 660red for "off hours" to make the corals pop even more and grow even faster.

Here is the activation spectrum im talking about:


It is the mix of A and B.
So as you can see, having the ability to "dial in" the LEDs is a huge bonus over other lighting.

[imisky]

hey Milad,

In theory 660nm should make the corals grow while 450-460nm (blue and royal blue) makes them color up and I've tested the concept with a custom built PAR 38 bulb, the result were far from pleasing.

The test was done in 1 system, where I had put a custom (5RB, 3CW, 1R) into the sump with adequate flow and movement and only limited the spot for corals to 6x6" with the PAR 38 hung above it at 6" so I'm getting a ton of PAR. The display uses PAR38 with 5RB and 4CW only. Since its the same setup the parameters are the same for the test and what I found was this.

Almost every SPS coral I put under the custom red PAR38 bulb had turned a brown color. There is a bit of color but majority of them lost that shine they had when they were under the none red LED. The test was started since last christmas and it is still going on today since i had a few times where I had gotten busy and the parameters were not optimal. But now that I have stablized the paramaters and my display is coloring up, the corals in the sump under the custom red PAR38 is still the same.

Which leads me to think that corals dont need as much red spectrum as we think they do. Infact from reading a few papers green spectrum seems to do more for corals then reds,and from my experience at 660nm everything just turns brown. Theres no point imo to bring in magenta colored multidie LED when in the end it'll turn all the SPS brown. Even if i was to cover up the red LED in that PAR38 bulb the result of the colors dont come back instantly, chances are they wont come back for a good 2-3weeks.

[mike31154]

Read up a little more on the Orphek line of products. According to them, they've teamed with marine biologists to produce LEDs specifically designed to provide the spectrum certain corals need and do well under. So the engineering/experimenting appears to have already been done by some highly educated and specialized individuals. Too early to tell whether it's smoke & mirrors but I'm inclined to believe them. Still, no personal experience, but feedback from customers with Orphek products appears to be mostly positive.

[Milad]

Originally Posted by mike31154

Read up a little more on the Orphek line of products. According to them, they've teamed with marine biologists to produce LEDs specifically designed to provide the spectrum certain corals need and do well under. So the engineering/experimenting appears to have already been done by some highly educated and specialized individuals. Too early to tell whether it's smoke & mirrors but I'm inclined to believe them. Still, no personal experience, but feedback from customers with Orphek products appears to be mostly positive.

Actually the LEDs we are bringing in our designed by the biologist/specialist not me. Their customers are huge industrial grow houses. What do the orphek guys use?

[Milad]

Originally Posted by imisky

hey Milad,

In theory 660nm should make the corals grow while 450-460nm (blue and royal blue) makes them color up and I've tested the concept with a custom built PAR 38 bulb, the result were far from pleasing.

The test was done in 1 system, where I had put a custom (5RB, 3CW, 1R) into the sump with adequate flow and movement and only limited the spot for corals to 6x6" with the PAR 38 hung above it at 6" so I'm getting a ton of PAR. The display uses PAR38 with 5RB and 4CW only. Since its the same setup the parameters are the same for the test and what I found was this.

Almost every SPS coral I put under the custom red PAR38 bulb had turned a brown color. There is a bit of color but majority of them lost that shine they had when they were under the none red LED. The test was started since last christmas and it is still going on today since i had a few times where I had gotten busy and the parameters were not optimal. But now that I have stablized the paramaters and my display is coloring up, the corals in the sump under the custom red PAR38 is still the same.

Which leads me to think that corals dont need as much red spectrum as we think they do. Infact from reading a few papers green spectrum seems to do more for corals then reds,and from my experience at 660nm everything just turns brown. Theres no point imo to bring in magenta colored multidie LED when in the end it'll turn all the SPS brown. Even if i was to cover up the red LED in that PAR38 bulb the result of the colors dont come back instantly, chances are they wont come back for a good 2-3weeks.

Thats good too know. Ill keep it in mind when im doing the testing. Im going to be testing several different versions of intensity of the 660nm mixed with the 45nm. Its supposedly proven by their biologist to work but I want to test it out in person to see if its smoke and mirror or what.

[ScubaSteve]

Originally Posted by Milad

Thats good too know. Ill keep it in mind when im doing the testing. Im going to be testing several different versions of intensity of the 660nm mixed with the 45nm. Its supposedly proven by their biologist to work but I want to test it out in person to see if its smoke and mirror or what.

660 nm makes the corals grow, yes... but... it does so by promoting the growth of zooxantellae, which in turn the coral feeds on. Unfortunately zooxantellae is brown which makes the corals brown out. It's kind of like giving a plant a ton of nitrogen fertilizer: yes, it grows fast but ends up all long and leggy... You get the effect you were looking for but you lose out elsewhere.

If you break out the physics textbook you can figure out how much red light there actually is at a certain depth where you find the corals. You loose a lot of red quite quickly as you go deeper. We are essentially keeping our corals in tide pools compared to their natural habitat, so to get the best behavior out of them you want to simulate the spectrum of light they experience at the depths they naturally reside rather than giving the zooxanthellae what they want (more red).

If you tell me what corals you are experimenting with, I can take a pretty good stab at which zooxanthellae clades are in your corals; from this I could give you pretty much the exact spectrum that clade absorbs (most importantly the absorption peaks). I'd echo the above comment of trying more green than red.

One thing to bare in mind is that all of this will make them grow better but not necessarily look better. You see the coral based on whatever light is not absorbed by the coral (it's own pigmentation + the zooxanthellae) or the light that is re-emitted through florescence. You need to strike a balance between the coral's health and growth and this left over amount to get the best of both worlds.