Legality question

[lastlight]

I mean a wholesaler is always getting corals in. If they spot something that looks just like a red planet on a dive could they just bring that in via the same process they bring us Canadians all the other stuff we get? It would not be stamped ORA...

[saltcreep]

You're right. It then comes down to whether you are able to find those cherry pieces and be able to charge a premium.

[lastlight]

(Legally) Why is it so much worse to bring such a coral to Canada from the USA than it is from Fiji or something? Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

[naesco]

Originally Posted by lastlight

(Legally) Why is it so much worse to bring such a coral to Canada from the USA than it is from Fiji or something? Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

The point you are missing is that CITES dictates that SPS coral cannot be exported and imported without a CITES permit.
Otherwise an 'exporter' from China (the USA would not be a problem) could simply ship to Canada or any country illegal corals with only a re-export document and not the original CITES permit. It avoids fraud and places a heavy penalty on the orignal importer to ensure that the coral entered the country properly.

[lastlight]

Oh so all corals that the wholesalers sell to the retailers came with CITES? Sorry I guess I could actually do some reading on this too.

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by lastlight

Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

well that part of things is just simple math.......Canada is small potatoes, when you compare it to the European and U.S. markets.........collectors/distributors will appease the the big markets with the "cherry" corals.......but at least they throw us a bone up here every once in a while......

[lastlight]

Originally Posted by fishytime

well that part of things is just simple math.......Canada is small potatoes, when you compare it to the European and U.S. markets.........collectors/distributors will appease the the big markets with the "cherry" corals.......but at least they throw us a bone up here every once in a while......

Just be careful where you catch it I guess. Thanks for the education guys!

[fencer]

CITES is an international agreement not setup by usfw

[wickedfrags]

generally yes, but not always, depends on the country they are imported from

Originally Posted by lastlight

Oh so all corals that the wholesalers sell to the retailers came with CITES? Sorry I guess I could actually do some reading on this too.

true, but Toronto got into the game of "re-exporting" corals to the US many years back......you just need a good guy over there to pick corals for you

Originally Posted by fishytime

well that part of things is just simple math.......Canada is small potatoes, when you compare it to the European and U.S. markets.........collectors/distributors will appease the the big markets with the "cherry" corals.......but at least they throw us a bone up here every once in a while......

correct, and it is voluntary, not all countries choose to participate, Tonga being an example (at least 3-4 years back anyway). You don't get a CITES when you import from Tonga.

Originally Posted by fencer

CITES is an international agreement not setup by usfw

[saltcreep]

Originally Posted by lastlight

(Legally) Why is it so much worse to bring such a coral to Canada from the USA than it is from Fiji or something? Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

It's not any "worse" exporting from the US versus any other country. The process is just a little different in that with permits from the US proof of legal import to the US has to be provided to the USFW in order to obtain the CITES re-export permit.

Originally Posted by naesco

Otherwise an 'exporter' from China (the USA would not be a problem) could simply ship to Canada or any country illegal corals with only a re-export document and not the original CITES permit. It avoids fraud and places a heavy penalty on the orignal importer to ensure that the coral entered the country properly.

An exporter in China would not export using the original CITES permit. They would apply to the Chinese government (if they are a CITES signatory - I haven't checked) for a re-export permit but would require the original at the time of application.

Originally Posted by lastlight

Oh so all corals that the wholesalers sell to the retailers came with CITES? Sorry I guess I could actually do some reading on this too.

They should come with a CITES permit or an acceptable permit from a non-signatory country, otherwise they are illegal.

Originally Posted by wickedfrags.com

correct, and it is voluntary, not all countries choose to participate, Tonga being an example (at least 3-4 years back anyway). You don't get a CITES when you import from Tonga.

Tonga is a signatory so you do get a CITES permit. Marshall Islands an example of one that is not, however they do issue permits that are accepted by CITES signatory countries.