Legality question

[saltcreep]

Originally Posted by naesco

If you get horny over a certain coral picture, print it out and take it to your LFS. They will find an exporter who will ship them one for you.

But that product still may not be able to be shipped to Canada. Again, there are issued with obtaining re-export permits from USFW for some cultured corals.

[lastlight]

Wholesalers just need to stumble upon similar looking corals with no specially described lineage right?

[saltcreep]

Sure can...as long as you are able to obtain permits. This is essence is the entire point of the thread. It is actually pretty black and white.

[lastlight]

I mean a wholesaler is always getting corals in. If they spot something that looks just like a red planet on a dive could they just bring that in via the same process they bring us Canadians all the other stuff we get? It would not be stamped ORA...

[saltcreep]

You're right. It then comes down to whether you are able to find those cherry pieces and be able to charge a premium.

[lastlight]

(Legally) Why is it so much worse to bring such a coral to Canada from the USA than it is from Fiji or something? Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

[naesco]

Originally Posted by lastlight

(Legally) Why is it so much worse to bring such a coral to Canada from the USA than it is from Fiji or something? Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

The point you are missing is that CITES dictates that SPS coral cannot be exported and imported without a CITES permit.
Otherwise an 'exporter' from China (the USA would not be a problem) could simply ship to Canada or any country illegal corals with only a re-export document and not the original CITES permit. It avoids fraud and places a heavy penalty on the orignal importer to ensure that the coral entered the country properly.

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by lastlight

Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

well that part of things is just simple math.......Canada is small potatoes, when you compare it to the European and U.S. markets.........collectors/distributors will appease the the big markets with the "cherry" corals.......but at least they throw us a bone up here every once in a while......

[saltcreep]

Originally Posted by lastlight

(Legally) Why is it so much worse to bring such a coral to Canada from the USA than it is from Fiji or something? Maybe I'm missing something. Is it just a USFW conspiracy to make Canadian tanks a bit less rad?

It's not any "worse" exporting from the US versus any other country. The process is just a little different in that with permits from the US proof of legal import to the US has to be provided to the USFW in order to obtain the CITES re-export permit.

Originally Posted by naesco

Otherwise an 'exporter' from China (the USA would not be a problem) could simply ship to Canada or any country illegal corals with only a re-export document and not the original CITES permit. It avoids fraud and places a heavy penalty on the orignal importer to ensure that the coral entered the country properly.

An exporter in China would not export using the original CITES permit. They would apply to the Chinese government (if they are a CITES signatory - I haven't checked) for a re-export permit but would require the original at the time of application.

Originally Posted by lastlight

Oh so all corals that the wholesalers sell to the retailers came with CITES? Sorry I guess I could actually do some reading on this too.

They should come with a CITES permit or an acceptable permit from a non-signatory country, otherwise they are illegal.

Originally Posted by wickedfrags.com

correct, and it is voluntary, not all countries choose to participate, Tonga being an example (at least 3-4 years back anyway). You don't get a CITES when you import from Tonga.

Tonga is a signatory so you do get a CITES permit. Marshall Islands an example of one that is not, however they do issue permits that are accepted by CITES signatory countries.