Legality question

[fencer]

Even if you had what they listed on the computer and you said no they have no way of telling any way. I have brought stuff only by air and ask and inspect all the time. I don't do that now as someof the LFS in town do a good job at geting some choice stuff

[Myka]

Originally Posted by fencer

Even if you had what they listed on the computer and you said no they have no way of telling any way.

Ya, that's a different topic though.

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

There seem to be a debait on the right answer, I think someone should give those guys a call and the right answer.
I think depending on the situation sometimes if you are a child or maybe a reefer with a couple pieces of corals showing its only for your tank they will simply letyou gowith no hassel.

[reefermadness]

whether the customs agent knows it or not CITES is still NEEDED for any stony corals including all SPS and LPS to legally import/export across CAN/US borders. This FACT is indisputable.

It sucks but its true. There are enough threads on the forum already about the subject.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by reefermadness

There are enough threads on the forum already about the subject.

Ya, but it's all relative to the source.

[phi delt reefer]

myka when i get home i wlll post my emails from the US and Canadian governing bodies for CITES...

they let you go when you were 14 - because you were 14 year old girl lol. They dont make me pay taxes on everything i bring over...its just an imperfect system. honestly you could just say "these are all softies" - bag em up 10 times and its not even going to look like anything online so they will just let it go. This is illegal though so if you get caught be prepared to screw yourself for life everytime you go back to the border.

problem with the cites list is that it lists the ORDER latin name which NONE of us recognize;

Kingdom:AnimaliaPhylum:CnidariaClass:AnthozoaOrder:ScleractiniaFamily:AcroporidaeGenus:Acropora


we are used to Acropora xyz... CITES Appendix two lists the ORDER Scleractinia as Stony Corals requiring CITES export permit. LPS falls into the same order but you can see how they screw us by saying everything under that ORDER is CITES controlled.

the forms for personal use of corals is free and their is no charges. As soon as its for a business be prepared to pay.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by phi delt reefer

...problem with the cites list is that it lists the ORDER latin name

...CITES Appendix two lists the ORDER Scleractinia as Stony Corals requiring CITES export permit.

...the forms for personal use of corals is free and their is no charges. As soon as its for a business be prepared to pay.

Oh I see. Very interesting. That even counts Zoanthids which are often legal to export from countries. Hmm.

Are you saying that there are "personal use" CITIES permits? These are free? I assume they probably take several weeks to get in order? Is this where the whole "can't sell frags" law comes in? I can bring them in, but if I frag it I have to give it away instead of sell. Also very interesting.

[saltcreep]

It's been pretty much covered. All scleractinia require CITES permits, be it an export or re-export permit.

Since these corals are not endemic to the US, a re-export will be required to be obtained prior to shipping from the US. With that application the original export permit (from the original country of origin) will be required to be supplied to the US Fish and Wildlife.

It's a little blurry when dealing with cultured product as in many instances, tracing the original import to the US is almost impossible.

Yes, when dealing with CBSA (or Canadian Wildlife) they do not have the resources nor the knowledge to adequately deal with imports of coral. Further complicating things will be the new legislation coming into force in December that will oversee imports of fish (but that's a whole other ball of wax).

[naesco]

A couple of points need to be re-stated and comments made.

It is simply illegal to import SPS into Canada without CITES permits accompanying the shipment.

If you attempt to do so you will be charged with a serious offence and the Courts will deal with you severely.

A hobbyist who imported a butterfly and got the exporter to falsify the invoice was fined $25,000.00 and the courts comments were harsh to him.

The comment that border staff would not be able to tell a softy from and SPS is not true.
Wildlife have experts on staff who can do a better job at identifying coral than 99% of us on this board.

If you get horny over a certain coral picture, print it out and take it to your LFS. They will find an exporter who will ship them one for you.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by naesco

A hobbyist who imported a butterfly and got the exporter to falsify the invoice was fined $25,000.00 and the courts comments were harsh to him.

I assume you are talking butterfly fish? A few people posted earlier that fish don't require cites yet, why would someone falsify a document to say otherwise? Was this an endangered one? Just curious as I prefer to buy fish after only seeing them first hand anyway.