Where dose it come from?

[lorenz0]

Think about a difference you can make towards the world, that can be your homework for the day

[gobytron]

so...
you've got nothing?

[lorenz0]

There is alot that a single individual can do. Your so closed minded with the idea that "its global warming," HA HA HA do you know how many times this has happened. The world has evolved to make it through climate changes and has proven to last.

[gobytron]

You're talkng about natural disasters.
not a man made one.

So you still have zip huh?

[lorenz0]

I'm not talking about natural disasters. The world is always shifting and changing. Where we live it used to be a giant sea. My point is we have evolved the world around us, not the other way around. There is actually a really good dvd you should watch about a reef in fiji that had been declining in health. A few biologists came in, examined it, compared to to another close by reef that was in alot better condition. Their final conclusion came to the fact that there was a river from the island that lead into the ocean... guess what was happening upstream, a lumber factory. All of the crap that was in the water was killing off the reef. Its like constantly stiring your sand, not much will be happy in your tank.

The thread from a few days ago about taking cleaner shrimp out of the reefs and bringing them into captivity is a great example of how we are impacting the world. Over fishing is another huge impact, fisherman are not seeing the same size of fish that they used to.

Honestly if you want me to write a paper on basic geology and the changes we have seen in time I will. Everything that is going wrong can be provented. As of now, yes the human race will die off. Once we have killed everything around us it will happen. Like I said, we have managed to live for thousands of years without effects on the world. Yet in the past 150 years we have probably caused the most amount of damage to it than it has ever seen before

[gobytron]

can be prevented but wont be.
you're missing my point.

Human beings do not shape geology...lol
I thank you kindy for NOT writing a paper on the subject.
And life was taken down to microbial levels in at least one of the natural disasters you're referencing.
how would an event like that affect us?

I wonder, once that lumber mill in Fiji was discovered to be the culprit, how fast did it shut down operations to improve their ecological approach?

my moneys on it still being run in the exact same way to this day....profitably.

I'm still witing for you to tell me how I can make a difference though....

[lorenz0]

You just answered yourself. One small change could have been made, but i'm sure nothing would have happened because it would have effected the economy. Wait did I just bring that up... yes. If something is a negative effect on some sort of profit they won't do it.

Btw I haven't listed reasons due to the fact that sounding like a broken record is not me. You know them, people preach about them, but yet no one gives a damn. Its because we depend on these things so much that giving them up is out of the question. EG. cars with one driver (how about driving trucks when you don't need to)

[CandyCane]

Originally Posted by lorenz0

I'm not talking about natural disasters. The world is always shifting and changing. Where we live it used to be a giant sea. My point is we have evolved the world around us, not the other way around. There is actually a really good dvd you should watch about a reef in fiji that had been declining in health. A few biologists came in, examined it, compared to to another close by reef that was in alot better condition. Their final conclusion came to the fact that there was a river from the island that lead into the ocean... guess what was happening upstream, a lumber factory. All of the crap that was in the water was killing off the reef. Its like constantly stiring your sand, not much will be happy in your tank.

The thread from a few days ago about taking cleaner shrimp out of the reefs and bringing them into captivity is a great example of how we are impacting the world. Over fishing is another huge impact, fisherman are not seeing the same size of fish that they used to.

Honestly if you want me to write a paper on basic geology and the changes we have seen in time I will. Everything that is going wrong can be provented. As of now, yes the human race will die off. Once we have killed everything around us it will happen. Like I said, we have managed to live for thousands of years without effects on the world. Yet in the past 150 years we have probably caused the most amount of damage to it than it has ever seen before

THANKYOU I think your facts are brilliant and well said!

If a fish doesnt want to breed in our tanks obviously its not the right environment for them and we shouldnt put them through being in a home they dont like just for our entertainment and collections.

I'm going to make a difference in the world because I'm taking tuns of biology courses in university and becoming a zoologist and I'm going to go shut down the lumber mill in figi so HAAAA

[CandyCane]

The veiw of "one person can't make a difference" really baffles me. Think of it like recycling. If one person never recycled anything their whole life you'd prob make a pile of garbage at least 50 feet tall! Consider recycleing now and that pile becomes way way smaller! If one person starts promoting in a lfs near them the selling of only farm bread marine creatures I think they could easily make a difference. If you hear a coral is "rare" maybe you shouldnt buy it, or cleaner wrasses, without them natural ocean reefs can't survive and they do horrible in our tanks anyways. Every little thing helps

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by CandyCane

If one person starts promoting in a lfs near them the selling of only farm bread marine creatures I think they could easily make a difference. If you hear a coral is "rare" maybe you shouldnt buy it, or cleaner wrasses, without them natural ocean reefs can't survive and they do horrible in our tanks anyways. Every little thing helps

You can walk into just about any salt water fish store and buy all the frags and captive bred clownfish you want right now. So stores are already doing something to "make a difference". It's not that stores don't want to sell lots of captive bred fish (cheaper if done on a large scale)its that they can't get them to breed in captivity(people are working on this daily). Rare fish and corals aren't usually rare because there's none to be found in the ocean, it's because they are usually deep water species so most of the collectors who only have access to snorkels and hold their breathe can't reach them. You need a trained deep water scuba diver to collect them and that won't be cheap so there is little market demand, hence rare. Most people on this board buy/trade/sell among each other so every time that happens people are doing something to save a reef. If you own a salt water fish tank then you are directly responsible for reef destruction. Even if you are sure none of your livestock or rock came from the ocean you have still put money into and supported the industry responsible. If people are actually serious about supporting the reefs they would sell every fish related item they had and get out of the hobby forever. Easy to say, hard to do. No different than driving a car instead of an SUV, you are still supporting the oil companies, haven't had to make any personal sacrifice but get to feel better of yourself and less of others. I guess the question is how big of a commitment is one willing to make to save a reef, a little one, a large one, total? I have captive bred fish and coral frags from others, does that make me more enviromentally friendly than other reef keepers? I think not.