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Old 07-06-2011, 06:04 PM
lenzh lenzh is offline
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These systems use the same basic steps:

1. Create a home for bacteria - zeo media and filter
2. Seed the home with the right bacteria - microbial additives (different brands)
3. Feed the bacteria with a carbon source - (I use vodka, but there are lots of others out there)
4. bacteria are happy and use the carbon source along with nutrients in the water column to fix nitrogen and phosporus that can either be skimmed out or used as a more complex food source for aquarium inhabitants.

Once you get the point where your nutrients are low, you will also have removed a lot of the complex amino acids and trace elements that corals take up. This is where the dosing of all those pricey additives comes in.

So...

If you think you can maintain a low nutrient environment without zeo (it is possible) then yes, go ahead and dose without that system, but be aware that most of those additives are designed to put back in a controlled way, what the zeo system is removing. Hope that makes some sense.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:20 PM
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lorenz0 lorenz0 is offline
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1 word.... prodibio

kz takes up to much time
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:28 PM
albert_dao albert_dao is offline
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Maybe I can clear this up (please note that my information will be biased towards the KZ products due to my profile):

1. Probiotic systems assume that you have stable water parameters in place. These values must reflect NSW levels, not the elevated levels that are typical of artificial reef systems. Of these, the KH is of particular concern. Do not elevate this value beyond 8.0.

You will also have to start paying attention to the potassium levels since the Redfield ratio starts to matter once the bacterial colonies start to manifest.

2. The warnings assume users have done zero research into the topic and/or are not following directions. Granted, any product, if misused, can cause catastrophe (heaters, uncovered MH bulbs anyone?).

There is also wiggle room regarding the dynamic nature of every reef system; e.g. you can set up two identical systems (water volume, rock volume, livestock, equipment, etc) and come back in six months with wild variance on either.

Either way, it's expected. Ever read the warning labels on a paper shredder? You should see the documents on the commercial unit I have in my office.

3. Many of the additives can be used within or without their probiotic components. However, many of the supplements only produce optimized results within the context of ULNS. How you get there is of little concern.

4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefOcean View Post
Nothing a skimmer and a phosban reactor really cant handle
Not quite. Skimmers and chemical medias are passive filtration methods that rely on organics and nutrients being delivered to them. You can't, for example, break down a nutrient deposit within your rockwork or sandbed by using more GFO. It will continue to remain sequestered within the substrate until agitated into the water column.

Probiotic systems route this by developing a microbial community that can integrate into the biological stratum of the entire system, depleting nutrient batteries and making them unavailable to more obtrusive lifeforms. Eventually, these biomass's and their mineralized nutrient loads become exported by mechanical means (skimmer, water changes) as they enter the water column. This is possible since a large part of the manifold strains are bacterialplanktonic.

Anyway, if you want a scientific insight into this topic (with empirical data and research documents), go here:

http://zeovit.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=76

Gary (mesocosm) has assembled a veritable library of information relevant to this topic and has paraphrased much of the research jargon into laymen terms (or close enough).

HTH
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:40 PM
lenzh lenzh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albert_dao View Post
Maybe I can clear this up (please note that my information will be biased towards the KZ products due to my profile):

1. Probiotic systems assume that you have stable water parameters in place. These values must reflect NSW levels, not the elevated levels that are typical of artificial reef systems. Of these, the KH is of particular concern. Do not elevate this value beyond 8.0.

You will also have to start paying attention to the potassium levels since the Redfield ratio starts to matter once the bacterial colonies start to manifest.

2. The warnings assume users have done zero research into the topic and/or are not following directions. Granted, any product, if misused, can cause catastrophe (heaters, uncovered MH bulbs anyone?).

There is also wiggle room regarding the dynamic nature of every reef system; e.g. you can set up two identical systems (water volume, rock volume, livestock, equipment, etc) and come back in six months with wild variance on either.

Either way, it's expected. Ever read the warning labels on a paper shredder? You should see the documents on the commercial unit I have in my office.

3. Many of the additives can be used within or without their probiotic components. However, many of the supplements only produce optimized results within the context of ULNS. How you get there is of little concern.

4.

Not quite. Skimmers and chemical medias are passive filtration methods that rely on organics and nutrients being delivered to them. You can't, for example, break down a nutrient deposit within your rockwork or sandbed by using more GFO. It will continue to remain sequestered within the substrate until agitated into the water column.

Probiotic systems route this by developing a microbial community that can integrate into the biological stratum of the entire system, depleting nutrient batteries and making them unavailable to more obtrusive lifeforms. Eventually, these biomass's and their mineralized nutrient loads become exported by mechanical means (skimmer, water changes) as they enter the water column. This is possible since a large part of the manifold strains are bacterialplanktonic.

Anyway, if you want a scientific insight into this topic (with empirical data and research documents), go here:

http://zeovit.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=76

Gary (mesocosm) has assembled a veritable library of information relevant to this topic and has paraphrased much of the research jargon into laymen terms (or close enough).

HTH
What he said...
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  #5  
Old 07-06-2011, 08:42 PM
albert_dao albert_dao is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenz0 View Post
1 word.... prodibio

kz takes up to much time
I concur; it bereaves me of two minutes of my life each day :P

In all seriousness, it is time consuming, but it has more to do with having to be exceptionally anal about watching your parameters and maintenance more than anything. The dosing is gravy. I enjoy it as much as I enjoy feeding my tank. I dose, the corals get big. I feed, the fish swarm at the front of the glass. Both activities make me happy.

If you're looking for a set and forget system, I'd look at all the Bio-pellets out there. They require exactly zero dosing once stabilized.
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