Bin Laden

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

Yeah, I'm sure that the conspiracy theorists will be working over time now!

Probably not since most evidence actually supports his death several years ago, shortly after 911. Honestly if you really buy into all this you're only believing what is broadcast on American news and not looking into other reputable sources which actually show evidence supporting these so called theories.

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Probably not since most evidence actually supports his death several years ago, shortly after 911. Honestly if you really buy into all this you're only believing what is broadcast on American news and not looking into other reputable sources which actually show evidence supporting these so called theories.

Which reputable sources? Some guy in his Mom's basement who refuses to publish his name or credentials has never struck me as a reputable source. I know better than to take the news at face value, there's always another side, but there are just as many holes in a lot of these conspiracy theories and quite frankly many of them just sound like the work of nutjobs. In the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to take the US governments word that they killed him this weekend.

[VFX]

An "nutjob's" view?

QUESTIONS ABOUT BIN LADEN

MAY 2, 2011. 9:15 am, Pacific Time. Everything could change minute by minute, but right now there are serious questions…

The face photo of a dead bin Laden that has been circulating on British media online sites is a fake. That has been confirmed by TheGuardian site. It’s a composite of an old bin Laden photo and an unknown dead man whose face was mashed up. The Guardian has the photos on its site, and you can see the fake was put together from two others.

GEO TV, a Pakistani media outlet, had apparently been reporting that Pakistani forces just killed bin Laden. That story: a Pakistani military helicopter was doing a search mission and was shot down by unknown persons. Pakistani troops then engaged in a fire fight with the shooters, and in that clash bin Laden was killed.

Now, however, on the GEO site, the story is changed. The new version is the official one. A US operation killed bin Laden.

Of possible relevance: In all the press reports I watched last night (Sunday), I heard no reference to the exact time of the attack on the house in Abbottabad. It’s elementary journalism to nail a fact like that down. What happened?

What about the DNA test on bin Laden? Last night (Sunday), US news outlets were reporting that a DNA test match had already been made between the man US Seals killed and bin Laden. So apparently, they already had a genuine DNA sample from bin Laden. But DNA testing takes time. How was the match arrived at so quickly?

Now, US news outlets are changing their tune. The DNA testing is underway. It wasn’t used to confirm bin Laden’s death. Instead, “facial recognition” was employed. This is not described. Does it mean eyeballing the corpse? Was facial-recognition software used to ID a photo of the dead bin Laden?

It appears, from press reports, that about a month ago, the White House was significantly leaning in the direction of believing bin Laden was living in the walled compound in Abbottabad. So since then, what measures were taken to assure he didn’t leave? Nearby ground surveillance? That could arouse suspicion. Satellite viewing? If so, and if bin Laden had fled, could he have been tracked and killed before disappearing?

For a long time, reports have circulated claiming bin Laden was already dead. The Pakistan Observer reported he died in December of 2001.

So far, since yesterday, neither US or Pakistani officials have released a photo of the corpse of bin Laden. The White House is now, it’s reported, debating about whether to release a “gruesome” picture.

We are told bin Laden was living in a large house in Abbotabad, which is a town where the Pakistani version of West Point is situated—a mile or two away from bin Laden’s hideout. Also, many retired Pakistani military officers live in the town. Two accused terrorists, CNN reports, Umar Patek and Tahir Shehzad, were arrested in Abbottabad in the past year, in house raids staged by Pakistani troops. Why would bin Laden set up shop there? Why would he stay after the raids? Although there appears to be evidence Pakistani officials have shielded bin Laden over the years, one can’t rely on all the military people in the town to follow suit.

And then there is the fact that this compound stuck out like a sore thumb in the area. It was far bigger than any other house in the area, had been built at a cost of $1 million, it had walls and security wire, the residents burned all their trash, and the women in the house spoke Arabic. Was bin Laden, the terrorist genius, announcing his presence?

President Obama claimed, last night, that bin Laden’s burial would be handled in accordance with Islamic custom. So the press is now reporting his body has been dropped at sea. At least one Muslim cleric claims this is not Islamic custom, the body must be buried in the ground—and if officials are worried the site could become a rallying point for terrorists, the secret grave could remain unmarked. The body is gone. No photo of it has been released. We have no details about how “facial recognition” was achieved. We have conflicting stories about who staged the attack. A phony death photo of bin Laden’s face has been discredited. The DNA-test story initially released has now been withdrawn.

On August 15, 2010, General Petraeus stated that capturing bin Laden was still high on the US agenda. So now, two-and-a-half months before the date American troops are supposed to come home from Afghanistan, there is a “mission-accomplished” public relations tune that can be played…and a partial drawdown of troops, plus a repeated hailing of the killing of bin Laden can be used to assuage bitter feelings about the war…as the next presidential election season approaches.

A few days before the 2004 election, a bin Laden video surfaced. Its authenticity was questioned. Some speculated it helped George Bush win a second term in office.

JON RAPPOPORT

No More Fake News

.

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by VFX

An "nutjob's" view?

QUESTIONS ABOUT BIN LADEN

MAY 2, 2011. 9:15 am, Pacific Time. Everything could change minute by minute, but right now there are serious questions…

The face photo of a dead bin Laden that has been circulating on British media online sites is a fake. That has been confirmed by TheGuardian site. It’s a composite of an old bin Laden photo and an unknown dead man whose face was mashed up. The Guardian has the photos on its site, and you can see the fake was put together from two others.

GEO TV, a Pakistani media outlet, had apparently been reporting that Pakistani forces just killed bin Laden. That story: a Pakistani military helicopter was doing a search mission and was shot down by unknown persons. Pakistani troops then engaged in a fire fight with the shooters, and in that clash bin Laden was killed.

Now, however, on the GEO site, the story is changed. The new version is the official one. A US operation killed bin Laden.

Of possible relevance: In all the press reports I watched last night (Sunday), I heard no reference to the exact time of the attack on the house in Abbottabad. It’s elementary journalism to nail a fact like that down. What happened?

What about the DNA test on bin Laden? Last night (Sunday), US news outlets were reporting that a DNA test match had already been made between the man US Seals killed and bin Laden. So apparently, they already had a genuine DNA sample from bin Laden. But DNA testing takes time. How was the match arrived at so quickly?

Now, US news outlets are changing their tune. The DNA testing is underway. It wasn’t used to confirm bin Laden’s death. Instead, “facial recognition” was employed. This is not described. Does it mean eyeballing the corpse? Was facial-recognition software used to ID a photo of the dead bin Laden?

It appears, from press reports, that about a month ago, the White House was significantly leaning in the direction of believing bin Laden was living in the walled compound in Abbottabad. So since then, what measures were taken to assure he didn’t leave? Nearby ground surveillance? That could arouse suspicion. Satellite viewing? If so, and if bin Laden had fled, could he have been tracked and killed before disappearing?

For a long time, reports have circulated claiming bin Laden was already dead. The Pakistan Observer reported he died in December of 2001.

So far, since yesterday, neither US or Pakistani officials have released a photo of the corpse of bin Laden. The White House is now, it’s reported, debating about whether to release a “gruesome” picture.

We are told bin Laden was living in a large house in Abbotabad, which is a town where the Pakistani version of West Point is situated—a mile or two away from bin Laden’s hideout. Also, many retired Pakistani military officers live in the town. Two accused terrorists, CNN reports, Umar Patek and Tahir Shehzad, were arrested in Abbottabad in the past year, in house raids staged by Pakistani troops. Why would bin Laden set up shop there? Why would he stay after the raids? Although there appears to be evidence Pakistani officials have shielded bin Laden over the years, one can’t rely on all the military people in the town to follow suit.

And then there is the fact that this compound stuck out like a sore thumb in the area. It was far bigger than any other house in the area, had been built at a cost of $1 million, it had walls and security wire, the residents burned all their trash, and the women in the house spoke Arabic. Was bin Laden, the terrorist genius, announcing his presence?

President Obama claimed, last night, that bin Laden’s burial would be handled in accordance with Islamic custom. So the press is now reporting his body has been dropped at sea. At least one Muslim cleric claims this is not Islamic custom, the body must be buried in the ground—and if officials are worried the site could become a rallying point for terrorists, the secret grave could remain unmarked. The body is gone. No photo of it has been released. We have no details about how “facial recognition” was achieved. We have conflicting stories about who staged the attack. A phony death photo of bin Laden’s face has been discredited. The DNA-test story initially released has now been withdrawn.

On August 15, 2010, General Petraeus stated that capturing bin Laden was still high on the US agenda. So now, two-and-a-half months before the date American troops are supposed to come home from Afghanistan, there is a “mission-accomplished” public relations tune that can be played…and a partial drawdown of troops, plus a repeated hailing of the killing of bin Laden can be used to assuage bitter feelings about the war…as the next presidential election season approaches.

A few days before the 2004 election, a bin Laden video surfaced. Its authenticity was questioned. Some speculated it helped George Bush win a second term in office.

JON RAPPOPORT

No More Fake News

.

I didn't say all of them were the work of nutjobs... but many of them are. This article you posted doesn't provide a single alternative viewpoint... it just asks more questions. That's a good thing, questions are important but the presence of questions doesn't automatically disprove the governments account of events. I read through the questions this article asked and still am willing to believe the US gov't on this.

There is and always has been though a wide gap between what a government official reports and what the news outlets write. This article seems to take more issue with some of the claims made in the British and American media then it does with statements from the US gov't.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

Which reputable sources? Some guy in his Mom's basement who refuses to publish his name or credentials has never struck me as a reputable source. I know better than to take the news at face value, there's always another side, but there are just as many holes in a lot of these conspiracy theories and quite frankly many of them just sound like the work of nutjobs. In the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to take the US governments word that they killed him this weekend.

There has been many published books by reputable professors, one being Prof David Griffin, hardly some guy in a basement.

If you want to talk reputable sources the only actual evidence provided by the US government even linking OBL to 911 is their so called confession tape which was released exactly when Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair had failed to prove Bin Laden's responsibility for 911 and both men were trying to win international public support, particularly in the Islamic world, for the anti-terrorist campaign. Then look at the tape, he is a weighty man with a black beard, not a grey one. His pale skin had suddenly become darker, and he had a different shaped nose. His artistic hands with slender fingers had transformed into those of a pugilist. Furthermore, Bin Laden can be seen writing a note with his right hand, although he is left-handed. Then consider some of his comments about how he knew the iron structure of the twin towers would melt yet he was actually a civil engineer in a passed life and would know the towers were constructed from steel not iron and a hydrocarbon fire from jet fuel can only reach 1800F while steel melts at 2800F.

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by sphelps

There has been many published books by reputable professors, one being Prof David Griffin, hardly some guy in a basement.

If you want to talk reputable sources the only actual evidence provided by the US government even linking OBL to 911 is their so called confession tape which was released exactly when Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair had failed to prove Bin Laden's responsibility for 911 and both men were trying to win international public support, particularly in the Islamic world, for the anti-terrorist campaign. Then look at the tape, he is a weighty man with a black beard, not a grey one. His pale skin had suddenly become darker, and he had a different shaped nose. His artistic hands with slender fingers had transformed into those of a pugilist. Furthermore, Bin Laden can be seen writing a note with his right hand, although he is left-handed. Then consider some of his comments about how he knew the iron structure of the twin towers would melt yet he was actually a civil engineer in a passed life and would know the towers were constructed from steel not iron and a hydrocarbon fire from jet fuel can only reach 1800F while steel melts at 2800F.

Maybe, I really can't say that I know for sure and without a doubt. I'm not an intelligence expert and I haven't watched the videos you're talking about. I do know that somebody flew those airplanes into the world trade centres and the pentagon. They do have the confessed "mastermind", I forget his name, in custody. Every government in the world has agreed at least publicly that Bin Laden and Al-Quaeda were behind the attacks. So, that's good enough evidence for me until someone shows me something absolutely game changing.

[PoonTang]

He's not really dead, he's just in hiding, I am pretty sure reports will soon surface about him sharing a condo with Elvis somewhere. I am sure the National Inquirer will have the full TRUE story out by next week LOL.

[rstar]

It was the Illuminati!!
But seriously, my jury is still out on this one. Ill wait for more info to filter in before I form a real opinion.

And as an aside, just read this article; http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/O...445/story.html

And am starting to feel credibility slipping away as the American goverment is trying harder to paint a desparate picture of OBL black evil heart.

[spawn]

I Think it's BS, I think he was dead in a rat hole in 2001 but like said by others here WAR is good business as long as the machine is running. I think the real reason this timely announcement was made was that the US fed. held a press conference last week to announce that they will not raise interest rates for quite some time..... (Because they can't afford to)so that means more QE.(printing Money) that they can't afford to put into circulation either.(but it's the lesser of two evils right now) Long story short the US is bankrupt & this & other announcements will be made in hope of gathering some national unity before the US greenback falls off the world stage as the most widely accepted currency, which will have very, very bad effects.

America is "winning" (maybe Charlie Sheen wasn't so crazy) He just had drug induced visions of the future.

[trilinearmipmap]

No matter how evil he is I can not take pleasure in someone's death.

He is responsible for the death of thousands. Who is responsible for the death of 100,000 Iraqi civillians?

This thing will not end with the death of Bin Laden. As long as the Muslims have a grievance they will be fighting us. As despicable as their terrorist tactics are, there are no other tactics they can use to fight the U.S. They are faced with an overwhelming military force and they are at a huge technological disadvantage when the U.S. has stealth aircraft, cruise missiles, predator drones, etc. What sort of tactics would we use if our country were invaded by the U.S.? Most likely improvised explosive devices.

We will not have peace until we have justice. Not to say that the terrorists are justified in their actions, but until the lives of people in those countries are improved, and they are able to live with some dignity, they will hate us and they will try to kill us.