abcha0s' 300G Ultimate Reef

[reefwars]

little late but awesome tank loving it, following on from here

[abcha0s]

So, today I learned a few things. For the first time I truely understand why many people don't like sand beds. I've just spent about 4+ hours cleaning mine and it was no fun at all.

Over the last couple of months, I have been constantly fighting with what I would describe as a massive bacterial bloom in my tank. At times it takes the form of long stringy things that hang off the rocks. It comes and goes in the water column but seems to have persisted as a film on the rocks and in the sand. I knew it was in the sand bed, but I figured it would break down over time and perhaps it would have, but after what I just cleaned out it might have taken years?!

I started noticing areas in the sand bed that looked like a thick crust that had shifted and broken apart. Kind of like snow when a crust forms on top and then water melts the bottom and it eventually cracks. I figured it was only in a few places and still hoped it would start breaking up on its own. Oh to be so naive.

Last night I decided to siphon out a section that was particularly bad and in the process discovered that the entire sand bed was encrusted about ¼” thick – held together by a bacterial sludge.

Many buckets and a few spills later I had siphoned off the top layer of the entire sand bed. Rinsed thoroughly in tap water, then ro/di, then saltwater and back in the tank. Mixed the clean sand with the old sand and tried to stir up the areas where I wasn’t able to siphon. The tank went white with floating bacteria that I hadn’t been able to get at. Wow.

The other thing I learned, or rather concluded is that it’s probably not a good idea to run biopellets right from the get go. It just complicates things too much and it takes a long time for the bacteria to find their balance. There’s likely some competition between the biopellet bacteria and the live rock bacteria and that isn’t really a good thing. Also because there isn’t much to skim out of the tank, the skimmer is having a hard time processing all of the bacteria and skimming super wet. I keep thinking that I’m winning the battle and then realize that I’m not even close.

- Brad

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by OscarMeyer

Brad tank looking awesome!

glad to see your gonna stick with the Illumina, i know your gonna end up loving it in the end!

I'm going to be tagging along!

Hey Todd - Thanks for the note. I'm really encouraged by your success with these lights. Your pictures are amazing. It's way too early for me to really have much of an opinion as my tank is doing all kinds of strange things. As you know, I'm not completely convinced that this light is going to do what I want it too, but I am in the camp that believes in LED technology and I am cautiously optimistic. No question that the Illumina is an engineering marvel. If it works it will change the hobby.

Originally Posted by The Codfather

Brad,
Tank is coming along nicely. Just through your thread and I am thinking of running a deep sand bed myself. I will be lifting my rock work as well, never thought of that before, good idea. You will have to keep us informed on your lighting route, like yourself, I am not completely confident on the LED fixtures. Alot are showing up on the market, and I have not seen a lot of tank have complete success....yet. There are a few on RC that are claiming to have great outcomes, so who knows, I am still a couple months off committing to one or the other, but I do have something in mind. At any rate, tank looks good.

Hi Bob - I had good success with my DSB in my 90G tank. I've had less success with my Shallow Sand Bed in my new tank. I think the trick is to get it heavily populated with sand sifting critters; although this is somewhat easier said than done. As far as lifting the rock goes, that has worked really well for me. If you haven't seen how I did this on my 90G tank, there's some pictures here.

I really want the LED lighting to be a winner. I will keep you updated.

Originally Posted by reefwars

little late but awesome tank loving it, following on from here

Thanks Denny - I really like the video you posted of the glass cutting. I was surprised by the low salinity of seawater where you are.

[lastlight]

Sorry to hear about the hassles. I love the look of my sandbed but yeah it can be a hassle at the same time. I'd get a sand-sifting fish to help you out. My sand was also forming solid layers (but fused with what may have been cyano) which quickly disappeared with my goby always sifting.

Interesting idea about the pellets too. Maybe you should suspend their operation until the tank has a decent bioload. Your skimmer definitely looked severely under-worked when I saw it.

[Kalifornia]

Beautiful absolutly prefect

May ask what was the cost of the stand as I am planning a 180 DD build inwall and just want to get an idea of the cost to go to a steel stand such as yours

Thanks

Looking forward to the progress

[Delphinus]

All throughout the planning stages on my current tank I was convinced I would stay BB for it. I've run smaller tanks BB and it was always amazing to me how much vaccuuming was required every week to keep them BB. Sandbeds hide this aspect which is both good and bad: it may look good but what lurks beneath?

In the end I chickened out and put sand in at the last minute. Two reasons, actually maybe three: 1) The rockwork that I built for myself has various supporting structures (combo of of acrylic and PVC on different pieces of it) and sand does a nice job of hiding that - otherwise I would have had to use rubble and I'm not a huge fan of rubble piles. 2) The silicone on the bottom edges is supremely thick and it was distracting to look at so sand hides that. And then 3) I have some fish that prefer to bury in sand at night and I thought it would be a kinder thing to offer them that.

I have to say that I still prefer the look of a shallow sand bed even with all the aggravation it causes. Sand storms, bacterial clumping etc.etc. I have a cleanup crew including sand dollars, conchs and nassarius and for the most part they keep up. I also put some moon snails in there but in hindsight this was a questionable move. They do an *incredible* job of turning sand over, but they are predatory. Nice newby level mistake on my part: buy first, research later. Oops. It's too bad, they are really neat snails. Look exactly like the apple sized moon snails you can find on on the BC coast but at 1" in size (and pure white in colour).

So I like the look, but I TOTALLY understand why some choose not to.

[albert_dao]

Thought I'd toss this out there:

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22732

♥

[abcha0s]

Sorry for the delayed responses.

Originally Posted by lastlight

Sorry to hear about the hassles. I love the look of my sandbed but yeah it can be a hassle at the same time. I'd get a sand-sifting fish to help you out. My sand was also forming solid layers (but fused with what may have been cyano) which quickly disappeared with my goby always sifting.

Interesting idea about the pellets too. Maybe you should suspend their operation until the tank has a decent bioload. Your skimmer definitely looked severely under-worked when I saw it.

My stocking plans include a couple of sand sifting gobies, but I have been hesitant to put them in the tank before it matures a little. Other than bacteria, theres probably not much in the sand bed for them to eat. I'll have to consider whether I can keep them fed with pellet food?

Turning the biopellet reactors off may or may not be a good idea, if I ever plan to start them up again. I'm not ready to give up yet. I'd really like to get things balanced and have the biopellets work for me. If I take them offline now, then I will have to go through this whole ordeal again at some point in the future. I'd rather just figure it out now. I guess I'm stubborn that way.

Originally Posted by Kalifornia

Beautiful absolutly prefect

May ask what was the cost of the stand as I am planning a 180 DD build inwall and just want to get an idea of the cost to go to a steel stand such as yours

Thanks

Looking forward to the progress

Thanks for the compliment - I tried to PM you but got an error. Anyway, I paid way to much for my stand because I didn't like the first version and sent it back to a different welder for modifications. In hind sight, this was a mistake and I should have just left well enough alone.

I do really like my stand and would recommend to anyone to build a metal stand. Just make sure the welder understands the importance of having it perfectly square, level and planar. Also, consider how you will brace the stand against sheering.

If you have the ability to transport the stand yourself, I would take it for powder coating yourself. The first go around I paid the welder $250+ to do this for me. The second go around I took it to the power coater myself and it cost me something like $100.

For a 180 DD your probably looking at around $400 - $500 all inclusive, but it could be less. I wouldn't expect it to be more.

There's a link in my post about the stand to a thread on RC. I found that to be a very useful thread.

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Thought I'd toss this out there:

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22732

♥

Thanks Albert!! - That's really amazing. I will talk to a friend of mine and see if he has this for sale.

I'll have to do a little reseach to see how it interacts with biopellets. My concern is that it will interfere with the biopellet process. If it works by breaking down protien then the bacteria should not be directly affected but I want to understand that process a little better before going down that route.

In the thread, the OP wants to rid his tank of bacteria. I want the bacteria, I just want it to stay in the biopellet reactors.

If I do try this, I will let you know how it works.

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

All throughout the planning stages on my current tank I was convinced I would stay BB for it. I've run smaller tanks BB and it was always amazing to me how much vaccuuming was required every week to keep them BB. Sandbeds hide this aspect which is both good and bad: it may look good but what lurks beneath?

In the end I chickened out and put sand in at the last minute. Two reasons, actually maybe three: 1) The rockwork that I built for myself has various supporting structures (combo of of acrylic and PVC on different pieces of it) and sand does a nice job of hiding that - otherwise I would have had to use rubble and I'm not a huge fan of rubble piles. 2) The silicone on the bottom edges is supremely thick and it was distracting to look at so sand hides that. And then 3) I have some fish that prefer to bury in sand at night and I thought it would be a kinder thing to offer them that.

I have to say that I still prefer the look of a shallow sand bed even with all the aggravation it causes. Sand storms, bacterial clumping etc.etc. I have a cleanup crew including sand dollars, conchs and nassarius and for the most part they keep up. I also put some moon snails in there but in hindsight this was a questionable move. They do an *incredible* job of turning sand over, but they are predatory. Nice newby level mistake on my part: buy first, research later. Oops. It's too bad, they are really neat snails. Look exactly like the apple sized moon snails you can find on on the BC coast but at 1" in size (and pure white in colour).

So I like the look, but I TOTALLY understand why some choose not to.

Hey Tony - As always, thanks for the feedback and ideas. I'm in the camp that really doesn't like the bare bottom look. I also have all kinds of crazy looking structures under my rock, so bare bottom isn't really an option with this tank.

It's really just one more thing to learn about. Lot's of people have successful Shallow Sand Beds. I just have to figure out how to manage it.

I've been starting to think about moving some fish over. Probably not for another week or two as I want to make some new introductions before transferring my existing stock. I might send you a PM about the fish trap that you used.

- Brad

[lastlight]

My diamond watchman goby is a model citizen for what it's worth. Doesn't even leave the sandbed while spitting it out and he also eats everything else I feed the tank. One of the best livestock choices I've made as my sand did a 180 since the addition.