Fish in QT dying

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by reefwars

i agree completely holwever sometimes we dont get fish that have enough time to fight it so if say you help a friend whos got a fish showing bad symtoms and you offer to treat for him(ive had this alot because people are afraid to take that step and be the one who fails on the fish...understandable) then throwing him into your display would be bad especially if he is getting bullied.......but i do agree that if you practise safe buying, dont buy fish every couple days and let things stabilize and maintain a healthy tank then its easier for fish to fight it off and even hyposalinity can be bad if done wrong so there are no easy fixes


it always comes down to not rushing and understanding all the things you do with your tank and asking questions and reading and discussing it..... it will go a long way and end up with a healthy tank.

I 100% agree... take your time, and don't rush. Buy from a reputable LFS if that is where you are. I myself have learned the hard way and bought fish that I shouldn't have. Personally I will always ask for the LFS to feed the fish I am wanting and see if it is eating, especially pellets. See how it is reacting during feeding if it is with other livestock. Seeing its behaviour and feeding helps.

The LFS stores I deal with, do the work for me. They do whatever treating that is necessary in their environement and won't let the fish go until it is 100% healthy looking and eating. Sometimes I had to wait 3-4 weeks for a fish, but well worth the wait, as I have NEVER lost a fish through this type of process at the LFS.

[naesco]

I agree.

I think the secret is to buy first class quality fish.
Too often reefers see a fish they like, one that is not often available or is simply a great deal and buy it and overlook "imperfections".

If the fish is free of spots, tears or redness, is plump with clear eyes take a second look at it. If it appears just as interested in you as you are in it, and actively swimming, buy it.

If not, pass on the fish as there will also be another one available.

Also avoid fish that are problematic like the powder blue tang and difficult to keep species as the chances are that it will get sick and die often taking a few of their tankmates with it.

I treat all new fish with a week of food saturated in Garlic Extreme and avoid putting any LFS water or the net in the tank.

[amy]

Thanks for the advice, I didnt buy these from a LFS which is why I felt I should play it safe. The LFS that sold me the cupramine told me it was perfectly safe and the bottle label led me to believe it as well. It says moat fish can tolerate levels at .8, but the recommendation is .6. Mine was .4 I really thought I was being safe.

[Wayne]

Just because they come from somewhere other than a LFS doesn't mean that the fish arn't heathly. In fact a lot of the time at the LFS the fish are stressed or in poorer condition (60 clowns in a 30G for example).

Copper treatment is a last resort treatment and as Denny said that tank shouldn't be used for anything else other than copper treatments. The copper is a poision that can leach out and affect other fish/inverts in the future.

Sorry for the loss, its never fun.

[jamesjackkson]

Some fish can not handle the copper treatment, I have seen the treatment of small fish kill in minutes. Although this is a good QT interval, unless there are signs that the fish are sick, in need of treatment, I just want to moniter Tamen in the quarantine tank a couple of weeks, and then they end of transmission or signs of disease, if at the time treatment Is necessary.

[Reefpins10]

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

IMO, quaranting just causes more stress. I personally never treat, nor quarantine. If an environment is in good shape, and if the fish is healthy, there should be no problems... And if there is ever an issue, like ICH for example, then again if the environment is healthy and the fish is strong, it should recover without any treatment.

Just remember the more you do to your environment and livestock, the more stress that is created. Best practice is to just leave things alone.

[MitchM]

I haven't purchased a fish for quite a few years, but when I do, I have a few rules:

-get to know your LFS
-plan out which fish you want to purchase
-do not buy a fish as soon as it arrives at the LFS
-find out how the LFS maintains its' tanks (UV filtration or other)
-if you see a fish that you want, find out how long it has been at the LFS
-see if the LFS will take a deposit and hold the fish for you until the fish has survived there and is eating for about 3 weeks

-Then purchase the fish and take it home

The LFS cannot control what condition the fish arrives in, but they obviously have a vested interest in getting you to purchase it.

This has always worked for me, and other than a "big box store", I have always been able to work with an LFS to acquire a healthy fish.
I have never quarantined, but as my systems grow larger and more complex,
for the next fish I purchase, I will be.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

copper bad.... I personally don't even carry copper in our store

There are too many fish that can't handle it, especially angels.


Depending on where your LFS gets their stock, depends on how well the fish acclimate to captivity.

That is why we try to purchase as much captive bred or tank raised or MAC certified fish. Regardless of our dilligence, we still have to purchased caught livestock for re-sale.

There are many arguments on either side for the QT tank. The only thing I can suggest, that agrees with many others, is know where the fish you are getting come from.

Wild caught fish have problems with disease, and stress much more than captive bred.

I have 2 facilities that I purchase from that acclimate their fish for approx 10 days before the sell them to us, getting the fish from filtered ocean water to production (manmade) saltwater. I have seen fish from these facilities start eating withing an hour from being released from their transport bags.

Ken - BWA

[daniella3d]

You should never treat with coper unless you are 100% sure your fish have velvet. Copper treatment, even cupramine is very poison. Cupramine is relatively safe but if you used any dechlorinator then it will bind with the amine in cupramine and relase the copper into a toxic form.

Never ever use any dechlorinator when using cupramine. If you need to neutralize ammonia then do it with water change.

If you fish don't show sign of velvet, then don't use copper. You can used hyposalinity and that is quite safe but again do it slowly and watch your fish for sign of distress. This should be done with a decent size aquarium and 10 gallons is too small for anything. 20 gallons is much better and more stable. Use a precise refractometer to do this, as a hydrometer is not precise enough.

The only time copper should be used is to treat marine velvet, when there is no doubt that there is marine velvet. Never ever otherwise.

Originally Posted by amy

After reading through some of the posts on marine velvet and ick, I decided that I do not want to take any chances with my tank and will be quarantining everything prior to putting it in the display tank. I have a 10 gallon tank, bare bottom with a powerhead, a heater and some PVC for hiding. I got 2 new gobies on Sunday, so I added the copper to the water as per instructions on the bottle and dripped the fish to acclimate them.One of them died yesterday afternoon. I immediately tested all of the water parameters and everything was at 0, except for the copper which was at .4 (where I want it right?)
I woke up this morning to the other goby dead.
They only lasted 2 days. Have I done something wrong? Could it have been stress? I can't imagine they were both sick to begin with.
Any thoughts?