Help: New Butterfly with Ich. FML.

[daniella3d]

yes maybe but you still have ich in your tank and if the situation get bad and the fish stressed, they will get ick again. Ick does not get away on its own. It's still on your fish gills and only waiting for the right moment to pop out.

Originally Posted by The Grizz

I beg to differ with you there, my cleaner wrasse took care a a case of ick on my Regal in one day. And garlic is a big help to keep all fish healthy.

[naesco]

Follow the advice of Grizz, Aquatrro and Delphius.
The idea is to get as much garlic into the Butterfly as possible and the other fish. Feed very often and only garlic soaked food.
A product called Garlic Extreme works best and you can avoid the fuss and smell of fresh garlic if you choose.

[George]

Originally Posted by George

I don't think cleaner shrimps or cleaner wrasses can do anything to ich. They mainly pick up dead skin or left over food in the mouth of a fish.
Garlic may or may not help.
Sometime people reported that they added this and that and the ich went away. Well, ich just doesn't simply go away. Most likely they are still attaching to some fish but just don't cause an outbreak yet.
If you don't want to set up a hospital tank, then avoiding any stress on the fish is the best option. Feed it well, no aggressive fish. Stable parameters. Hopefully the fish can fight off the outbreak.

Originally Posted by The Grizz

I beg to differ with you there, my cleaner wrasse took care a a case of ick on my Regal in one day. And garlic is a big help to keep all fish healthy.

Well..the life cycle of marine ich is very well studied and understood. There are 3 stages to it, the first stage it bores under the skin or gills of a fish. The second stage it falls off the fish and turns into a cyst. The third stage it breaks out of the cyst and becomes a free swiming parasite. If it can't find a host in the 3rd stage within a few days, it dies.
In the first 2 stages, no current medicine can kill it because it is well protected. That's why I believe cleaner shrimps or clean wrasses can't do a damn thing about it either when ich is in those stages. They can't do anything about free swimming ich either.
If sign of ich goes away without using any medicine, kudos to you for keeping the fish stress free and avoiding another outbreak.

[ScubaSteve]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll give it all a try. George, you are correct about the life cycle of ich. Other than treating the entire tank the only I can do is just keep the fish healthy to fight it and prevent it from getting a foot hold. If the cleaners can remove the parasite before it burrows and the garlic can help prevent it from sticking around it may be possible to starve it out.

The tank is pretty low stress as only chilled out fish are allowed. There is only a mandarin (chill), goby (chill) and a blenny (a little yellow Buddha reincarnate). Whether or not the fish likes his new digs remains to be seen.

[The Grizz]

Yes I am very aware of all this info, all I was saying is what works well for me. I have only had one major outbreak of ice in the 8'er in the year it has been running. I have made many changes inside the tank and added new fish often without issues. All my food I feed be it pellet or Mysis is garlic enriched and my cleaner wrasse keeps all the tangs clean. That's all.

[Delphinus]

Unfortunately I feel very strongly about cleaner wrasses in captivity, and I say "unfortunately" because it's really too bad I love that fish! If you've ever seen Hawaiian cleaner wrasses they will take your breath away. But not only do cleaner wrasses fare poorly in captivity, it's a double edged sword because it means a cleaner station was "taken offline" so to speak in the wild and this probably does more harm than we can imagine. In the case of cleaner shrimp this is probably true to a lesser extent but it's also mitigated by the fact that cleaner shrimp have millions of babies every couple of weeks so for every adult removed from the wild it means one more of the millions that might not have survived now gets a chance to take their place instead. Cleaner wrasses on the other hand spawn less frequently and the cleaner stations will only have 2 or 3 of these fish and once they're gone they're gone. It sucks, but if we have any love or respect of the reef at all we have to be disciplined and leave cleaner wrasses in the wild, some species we have to draw the line on and say "not in my tank" even if it means we lose out on value inside our own captive reef.

As for cleaners vs ich, I would venture that there is still some value even if they do nothing to the ich life cycle itself. When I see a fish with ich it very often tries to scratch against different surfaces and this risks injury or lessens the slime coat which in turn opens the door for escalation. Whereas cleaner shrimp do their thing and it must feel good since a fish who recognizes what a cleaner does will seek it out and I suspect it's a little more surgical than random rock scraping. Sort of like how a hot bath doesn't cure a cold or the sniffles but you feel better anyhow after one and any little bit helps.

Just my thoughts based on maybe nothing in particular, thanks for listening

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by naesco

Follow the advice of Grizz, Aquatrro and Delphius.
The idea is to get as much garlic into the Butterfly as possible and the other fish. Feed very often and only garlic soaked food.
A product called Garlic Extreme works best and you can avoid the fuss and smell of fresh garlic if you choose.

cant argue with this

[The Grizz]

I do agree with all that Tony, my main reason for my cleaner wrasse is that I seen it at Pieces when I was there getting bones for my Huskies. They had it in there one coral tank and was looking some what skinny. So I decided to bring it home and see if I could lengthen it's life, also refused to pay full price of it just for that fact. Now he is looking so good, very active, swims around with my checker board wrasse, eats pellets & flake and have even seen him pick at some algea and even Mysis too.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Unfortunately I feel very strongly about cleaner wrasses in captivity, and I say "unfortunately" because it's really too bad I love that fish! If you've ever seen Hawaiian cleaner wrasses they will take your breath away. But not only do cleaner wrasses fare poorly in captivity, it's a double edged sword because it means a cleaner station was "taken offline" so to speak in the wild and this probably does more harm than we can imagine. In the case of cleaner shrimp this is probably true to a lesser extent but it's also mitigated by the fact that cleaner shrimp have millions of babies every couple of weeks so for every adult removed from the wild it means one more of the millions that might not have survived now gets a chance to take their place instead. Cleaner wrasses on the other hand spawn less frequently and the cleaner stations will only have 2 or 3 of these fish and once they're gone they're gone. It sucks, but if we have any love or respect of the reef at all we have to be disciplined and leave cleaner wrasses in the wild, some species we have to draw the line on and say "not in my tank" even if it means we lose out on value inside our own captive reef.

As for cleaners vs ich, I would venture that there is still some value even if they do nothing to the ich life cycle itself. When I see a fish with ich it very often tries to scratch against different surfaces and this risks injury or lessens the slime coat which in turn opens the door for escalation. Whereas cleaner shrimp do their thing and it must feel good since a fish who recognizes what a cleaner does will seek it out and I suspect it's a little more surgical than random rock scraping. Sort of like how a hot bath doesn't cure a cold or the sniffles but you feel better anyhow after one and any little bit helps.

Just my thoughts based on maybe nothing in particular, thanks for listening

agreed cleaner wrasses up and die even when they are eating healthy and doing well for years, i lost mine after i had him for over a year.....died during water change looked completely healthy and was eating like a champ.cleaner shrimp are a better choice for sureand i agree if they werent doing anything alot of fish would just eat them when they came close but its not the case ive seen them in the mouths or morays and ive seen fish looking for the cleaners

[The Grizz]

I would have some cleaner shrimp to but something, have no idea what, has a taste for all the shrimp I have put in my tank even a huge coral banded shrimp.