Copperbands Valentine's Day Lovefest - Not

[daniella3d]

Well, I am only drawing conclusions from what you write.

I already offered you advise how to feed your copperband(s) and what you should do for introducing it safely. Not much else I can do.

I consider "experimenting" fine, but keep in mind who's going to pay the price for your experimentation. Often people don't realize that fish are dying from these experimentations and most of the time it could have been avoided with simple research.

I am not against experimenting as long as this does not cost the life of a poor creatre with something that was all way too predictible. This, I consider, was quite predictible.

Often people buy these fish so that they will solve their aiptasia problem, without really caring what happen to the fish once it run out of aiptasia to eat. I read it over and over again.

I am not saying you should leave the hobby and pack your things...that's not what I was suggesting.

For now you are NOT keeping the fish separated. You are keeping them in a very very stressfull situation where they can see each other and attack each other through a egg crate. Haven't you see how hard and fast your copperband is breathing?? This is called stress. This is what actualy makes me hangry. How long do you intend to keep this going??

You really need to put an end to this situation by returning one of the fish or really separating them so they can't see each other and keep fighting all day. Not only they still can harm each other but they can harm themselves trying to bite through the egg crate and obviously they are living in extreme stress. What makes me hangry is that you seem to not realize this.

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Daniella, you are very quick to come to conclusions. You don't know anything about me. I do appreciate your concern, though, and I also like Copperbands, not just because they eat aiptasia. But you could be more helpful, if you offered some support instead of just criticism. If I took your posts to heart, I should quit this hobby and accept that I am not worthy of keeping SW fish.

As for my experience, I am new to SW fish, but was big in the FW hobby quite a few years back. I actually was successful at breeding discus, so I know a bit about finicky fish behavior. Having said that, I know SW is much more difficult and I have a lot to learn. The good news is that there is much more info available now with the internet, and forums like this.

Getting back to my Copperbands and the display tank. My approach is different this time than last, so don't think I am repeating the same mistake. I admit this may not work out either, but wanted to try it and see what happens. I learned a long time ago, that a little experimentation leads to new learning, so I don't always accept what all the "experts" say. As I said, I have the option of only keeping 1 Copperband, and am keeping the fish separated, so they can't harm each other.

As for the Yellow Tang, from past experience, he only harasses new fish for a few days, and then leaves them alone. He still occasionally gives a little tail slap towards other fish, just to show he is the boss, but does not chase them. I have tried to catch him in the past, but that is impossible with a net. If he (and the other fish, too) see me coming with a net, he hides in the back and in the rocks and caves. Even when feeding, he will disappear if I have a net in my hand.

Having said that, my intention is to try and catch the Yellow Tang, and put him into the QT tank, when moving the Copperband(s) to the display tank. I am looking for a fish trap right now, and will give that a try when the time comes.

As for fat Copperbands, certainly not yet; I have only had them 3 weeks, but already am seeing their bellies and sides filled out more, so they are definitely gaining. I feed little bits of food about 4 or 5 times a day. I am also being very careful not to pollute the tank, so am monitoring all my water parameters daily.

My first priority was to get them eating, and am very happy to see them accept different foods now, too. I started them on frozen PE Mysis, and agree that is the best. But the freeze dried stuff is also high in protein and has added vitamins, so am hopeful that will be good for them, too. And it all gets eaten, nothing falls into hidden crevices to pollute the tank.

Reef Pilot

[Reef Pilot]

Thanks Reefwars and Turtleton for your encouraging words. Glad to see that everyone on this list does not have a holier than thou attitude.

I read a lot (and talked to people at the fish shops) about Copperbands and so totally understood the challenge before I got these ones. I knew the first priority had to be getting them to eat, as that is what most people had difficulty with. And I am happy to say that seems to be very successful so far.

But it didn't just happen. I actually believe having the 2 Copperbands and the Azure Damselfish helped. Fish seem to need to be stimulated to feed. And when they see another one eating, that seems to get them going. The smaller fish (on the left side of the divider) was definitely slower to start eating and converting to new foods. But now I have both them eating frozen Mysis, chopped fresh clams and just the last few days freeze dried Mysis enriched with vitamins. That was not easy, and I had to use a few tricks from my old FW days for tricking finicky fish into eating new foods.

Reef Pilot

[Reef Pilot]

And Daniella, I am very sorry for making you "hangry". That was not at all my intention.

And you should be happy to learn that today, they seem to be getting along much better now. The smaller one (on the left side) still seems to try to start something occasionally, by taking a poke or lunge towards the other one. But the bigger one is now mostly ignoring him (or her), and most of the time they are each just doing their thing poking around the bottom looking for bits.

I think what happened is that the smaller one finally got enough health and vigor to defend his "territory". At first the bigger one reacted, but now seems to just ignore him.

Although what is still interesting, is that sometimes they just sit calmly close to each other by the divider (no heavy rapid breathing) for a while, almost like they are enjoying each others' company. That may be wishful thinking on my part, so not sure what that is all about.

They both do get very excited when I come around, looking for their food. So I really don't think they are very stressed, quite the contrary actually.

Reef Pilot

[ensquire]

Careful who you make "hangry". Looks like there are now copperband police.

[daniella3d]

Can't beleive I am the only one upset seing things like that...

Call me batch number 1458 if you wish...member of the copperband police.

Originally Posted by ensquire

Careful who you make "hangry". Looks like there are now copperband police.

[Reef Pilot]

Daniella, since you seem to be the big expert on this forum about Copperbands, I would like to know more about your experience.

How many have you owned, and how long have they lived? How did they do once you put them into your main display tank? Were they bullied at all, and were they able to successfully compete for food with the other fish. Did you ever keep a Yellow Tang with a Copperband?

I have seen other display tanks with Yellow Tangs and Copperbands, and they all seemed happy, so I know it can be done. But it couldn't have been all peace and love, right at the introduction. And I have seen tanks with more than 1 Copperband.

Reef Pilot

[daniella3d]

I am not a big expert but no one needs to be an expert to see your fish are stressed..duh...

I have one for a few months now and it is fat and healthy. it is not stressed by any fish and no fish in my tank ever harrased it from the begining. I would not have tolerated this.

I do not tolerate aggression in my tank. It surely can be done to put a yellow tang in with a copperband but there are ways to do it. yours seem that it harrassed your previous copperband and will most probably do it again (very predictible). The proper way to do it is to introduce the yellow tang AFTER the copperband has had a chance to acclimate, like one month after.

My copperband is now with a niger trigger and both eat side by side when I put a mussel. Acutaly it is the trigger that showed the butterfly that a mussel was food. There is no competition for food at all and my copperband gets his white worms a few times per day and I feed it with a pipette. He's totaly rotten spoiled but I love that fish.

The only yellow tang I ever had ended up killing my mandarin so I sold it long before I got the copperband because he would have killed that one too.

Copperband are hard fish to keep. They are sensitive (you can lough now) and have a sweet personality. It,s already hard to keep them in good health with a perfect setup, never mind having them harrassed by other fish and putting 2 of them in competition together in a too small aquarium.

When I got my copperband it was only skin and bone. It was infested with flukes and was breathing very fast. Was only eating about 3 PE mysis per day. It was really on its way out. I fatten him up with white worms and that took about 10 days, did a 4 weeks quarentine and on week 3 and 4 I treated it with prazipro. It was not an easy task to get him back to health and any fish harrasing or fighting it would have meant a failure for sure. When it was in quarentine it was alone, with no stress, until it was fat and healthy again. I did not even treat him for flukes until I felt he was strong enough and fat enough (prazipro cut off appetite).

what tank did you see with more than one copperband?? petshop bare tank? very large tank? Maybe some copperband could get along together but hey...yours are fighting and obviously they wont be ok together. Seem easy enough to see.

If you want to read my story and read the reply and see how hard they are to keep:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71617

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Daniella, since you seem to be the big expert on this forum about Copperbands, I would like to know more about your experience.

How many have you owned, and how long have they lived? How did they do once you put them into your main display tank? Were they bullied at all, and were they able to successfully compete for food with the other fish. Did you ever keep a Yellow Tang with a Copperband?

I have seen other display tanks with Yellow Tangs and Copperbands, and they all seemed happy, so I know it can be done. But it couldn't have been all peace and love, right at the introduction. And I have seen tanks with more than 1 Copperband.

Reef Pilot

[Duffer2]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

I have seen other display tanks with Yellow Tangs and Copperbands, and they all seemed happy, so I know it can be done. But it couldn't have been all peace and love, right at the introduction. And I have seen tanks with more than 1 Copperband.

Reef Pilot

Currently have a Yellow Tang and a Copperband hanging out peacefully in my 120. The Yellow kicked the crap outta the copper for 3 days. He then got placed in the sump for 3 days, brought back in, and now everyone gets along just fine. Copperband will be 2 years old in captivity next month.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Can't beleive I am the only one upset seing things like that...

Call me batch number 1458 if you wish...member of the copperband police.

daniella i do agree with what you say and ive read just about all your posts so i know for a fact your a very very smart person but sometimes we have to have a little faith in the common reefer......not many are out to purely hurt a fish and no one wants to see a fish die.

its a fine line to cross with an experiment and abuse to a fish and i dont think this is a case of buying two copperbands and just dropping them into a tank to hash it out.the op has gotten them to feed hes well aware of the dangers of having two and is well aware of their track record..... will it be successfull who knows possibly not but we do need this in this hobby.

from what i remember you bought a skinny copper to try to fatten him up and knowing that they dont do well i aquarium life while some say that would have been a bad idea i believe if you do our research and think you have an honest chance then give it a try.....so far so good right??


bad track record yes...impossible no

i know of a lady who has had a copperband for many many years shes involved in research and very knowlegable about the hobby with over 15yrs experience she was oneof the first reefers i met in alberta and led me on to a diet for my yellow tang that turned him completely around so its not impossible to keep one.


lets face it theres alot of new dscoveries to be had in the marine hobby and we shouldnt be to quick to judge.....alot of this was started and perfected with hobbyst like yourself and the o.p who wanted to "try" and each day i thank god that someone had of taken that step or wondered why we cant have this in our home

so lets all be open minded and offer advice that will help (not that you havent because you have offered great advice) if theres a problem then lets not judge and label people "fish abusers" lets help solve the problem and help as best as we can


there are no tang police or copper police merely people who are concerned for our scaley friends and alot of times a kind word of advice will go along ways where as putting down peoples practises will just get your advice ignored.


ummmmm so lets all be open minded and do what we do best which is advise and pls dont take things to heart and get mad it really doesnt help but a positive attitude will go on and on and on and on



like i say in the beginning i know for a fact your a very smart person and one with a big heart for the hobby so keep it up but lets help more and create positive feedback or people are just going to do this stuff and not post it and the more publc posts we get the more public info there is cheers

[daniella3d]

yes I know and beleive me that I feel like a "Bi***" saying all these things (I am not like that) but it does upset me to see such thing and I could not just watch without saying my opinion about it. I don't know why it upset me so much..it's not my fish after all. Maybe I just love my butterfly too much so I get emotional when watching this video.

I just hope it turn out well.

Originally Posted by reefwars

so lets all be open minded and offer advice that will help (not that you havent because you have offered great advice) if theres a problem then lets not judge and label people "fish abusers" lets help solve the problem and help as best as we can


there are no tang police or copper police merely people who are concerned for our scaley friends and alot of times a kind word of advice will go along ways where as putting down peoples practises will just get your advice ignored.


ummmmm so lets all be open minded and do what we do best which is advise and pls dont take things to heart and get mad it really doesnt help but a positive attitude will go on and on and on and on