Cleaning your tank during a showing of ICH

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Hawkaholic

Now for the ich in the tank business. Some may disagree...well...probably most will but this is my opinion. It won't mean much cause I'm not as cool as the other canreefers hehe. The ich parasite is always present in a tank...I don't care who you are...its there. No amount of water changes or lowering salinity or temp. will get rid of it. It doesn't matter what a reefer does, the parasite will always be there. It may die off but it will always come back.

Placing the fish in quarantine will cause stress. Cleaning the tank and/or rocks will cause stress. Your best bet right now is to just leave it alone and keep an eye on it. Good luck

This gets my vote for cool!!

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by Hawkaholic

Now for the ich in the tank business. Some may disagree...well...probably most will but this is my opinion. It won't mean much cause I'm not as cool as the other canreefers hehe. The ich parasite is always present in a tank...I don't care who you are...its there. No amount of water changes or lowering salinity or temp. will get rid of it. It doesn't matter what a reefer does, the parasite will always be there. It may die off but it will always come back.

That get's my vote for rediculous? - If I don't say it, someone else will.

Fair enough that 'many' people think this way. I know all of the arguements and you are certainally entitled to your opinion, but this way of thinking is so old school.

I'm cycling a new tank. I started with dry eco rock and live sand from a bag that's been on a shelf for some months. There's no way there's ich in this tank. Impossible. If I add coral but no fish and wait 30 days, then even if the ich came in on the coral, without a host fish it is now dead.

As soon as I add fish, there is a risk of adding ich, but it is only a risk. If I add one fish that has never been exposed to ich, then there is no ich in my tank. Period.

This way of thinking would only be possible if you believed that every fish always has ich and that even with copper treatment you could never get rid of it. I don't believe this.

Anyway - just having fun with the biggest myth of them all. I have Ich in my 90G tank and I sure wish I knew any easy way to get rid of it.

- Brad

[marie]

Originally Posted by Hawkaholic

......

Now for the ich in the tank business. Some may disagree...well...probably most will but this is my opinion. It won't mean much cause I'm not as cool as the other canreefers hehe. The ich parasite is always present in a tank...I don't care who you are...its there. No amount of water changes or lowering salinity or temp. will get rid of it. It doesn't matter what a reefer does, the parasite will always be there. It may die off but it will always come back.

........

Not trying to start an argument but I have to speak up. It is possible to have a tank with no ich, I have one and I have THE ich magnet of all ich magnets, an achilles tang. He's been in my tank for 4 1/2 yrs and has not had ich since the day he arrived here (he was quarantined and treated with cupramine)

[Zoaelite]

Originally Posted by marie

Not trying to start an argument but I have to speak up. It is possible to have a tank with no ich, I have one and I have THE ich magnet of all ich magnets, an achilles tang. He's been in my tank for 4 1/2 yrs and has not had ich since the day he arrived here (he was quarantined and treated with cupramine)

I'm sure it's certainly possible but if your keeping your fish healthy and happy (And Doofus does look healthy and happy ) whats the point? A healthy fish in a stress free environment can fight of most parasitic infections on their own.

I'm cycling a new tank. I started with dry eco rock and live sand from a bag that's been on a shelf for some months. There's no way there's ich in this tank. Impossible. If I add coral but no fish and wait 30 days, then even if the ich came in on the coral, without a host fish it is now dead.

Now that gets my vote for ridiculous, your trying to replicate a natural environment by starting your bacterial culture with the biggest myth out there... Bagged live sand. Your fish will end up getting Ich because of stress associated with high nitrates unless you wait months for a cycle to occur (and yes... Ich is everywhere, your little "Paradise" is not immune).

Natural live rock is expensive because its just that NATURAL, seeded with a cornucopia of bacteria and microfauna that is essential to starting a reef tank. You will have to add it at some time if you want to add coral and if the fish are already in there the parasite is in there also.

You seem to be focusing on having an Ich free tank over a healthy established tank, a major error IMO.

[marie]

Originally Posted by zoaElite

I'm sure it's certainly possible but if your keeping your fish healthy and happy (And Doofus does look healthy and happy ) whats the point? A healthy fish in a stress free environment can fight of most parasitic infections on their own.

......

Your right....to a point. I don't think ich is particularly deadly and I think a lot of fish that supposedly die from Ich actually die from Marine Velvet, Ich just happens to be the more visible (they can have both at the same time, marine velvet is very stressful) and so it gets blamed.

Doofus arrived here with Marine Velvet and ich and without being quarantined, not only would of died but would of taken the other fish with him, including my regal angel. I am a firm believer in quarantine....but an ich free tank is just a side benefit

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by zoaElite

Now that gets my vote for ridiculous, your trying to replicate a natural environment by starting your bacterial culture with the biggest myth out there... Bagged live sand. Your fish will end up getting Ich because of stress associated with high nitrates unless you wait months for a cycle to occur (and yes... Ich is everywhere, your little "Paradise" is not immune).

Natural live rock is expensive because its just that NATURAL, seeded with a cornucopia of bacteria and microfauna that is essential to starting a reef tank. You will have to add it at some time if you want to add coral and if the fish are already in there the parasite is in there also.

You seem to be focusing on having an Ich free tank over a healthy established tank, a major error IMO.

So, that wasn’t really my point. By my own logic, there's no risk of introducing ich with live sand or rock if you wait out the life cycle before adding fish.

I am using “live” sand because of the grain size and colour, not because I am expecting any miracles. I agree with you that there is little or no beneficial life in bagged live sand other than some bacteria.

I am using dry rock to avoid the pests that can come in with live rock, but it was a carefully considered decision. I will be seeding the rock and sand with various detritivores and real “live” sand from Inland Aquatics. If I can find some good quality live rock from a trusted source, I’ll add that too. It will take longer for the tank to mature, but I control what goes in.

For what it’s worth, I’m not afraid of introducing ich to my new tank. I agree that healthy fish can easily fight it off. I have ich in my 90G and I have never lost a fish. I would have thought it was gone except that every so often I’ll see a spec. It’s the aptasia and bubble algea that I’m trying to avoid.

The point is, there is no ich in my tank now. It is possible to have an ich free tank. My 90G was completely ich free for the first 2 years and I had lots of fish. It’s only when I added a tang that I started to see it.

Anyway, I’d love to see the research that says “Ich is everywhere”. I’ve never come across a credible source that supports that argument.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyo...us_multifiliis

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

Hey - it's good for a debate right? - I've heard many people say that 'ich is everywhere', but I just can't accept that as being true.

[daniella3d]

Unfortunatly these tree things would not work against marine velvet. lets just hope you don't have to deal with that. More than one person here on this forum were doing the same thing for years without problem, until one day.... then you read threads here mentioning 30 dead fishes.

This is silly and does not have to be just because someone is careless and think that these things will never happen to them. It's not being responsible, it's playing russian roulette with your livestock.

Originally Posted by zoaElite

Ready for a shocker? I never quarantine new fish purchases and have never had any serious problems with disease (Tanks been running for over a year now). Perhaps it's just luck *Knock on wood* but the 3 things I do to keep my fish healthy and happy include:

-Feeding an extremely varied diet soaked in a garlic supplement.
-Regular water changes and nitrate sinks to reduce water containment.
-I also employ a pair of cleaner shrimp and fire shrimp that have set up cleaning stations on either side of the tank.

Seems you are doing everything just fine, I would keep your cleaning routine the exact same and you should see the spots disappear nice and fast.

[Frenchie2]

My blue tang used to get ich from time to time. I feed my fish a variety of foods - frozen, pellets, noori, etc. I serve frozen foods with a few drops of Garlic Xtreme and Selcon every other day. For pellets, I give them "Biofish Food" from Dr. Bassleer's - those pellets work so good. I give them pellet food every other day too. Those pellets contain a tiny bit of cooper but will not endanger your invertebres. I have 4 shrimps ( & a whole lot of corals) and they eat it all no problem and are healthy. Since I've added the pellets to their diet, I've never seen any ich on any of the fish at all for the last year. I do 20% water change everyweek, religiously.
If you can't find those pellets at your LFS, J&L sells them. Good luck!

[daniella3d]

In deed, completely ridiculous. I don,t have ich in my tank because I do a strict quarantine. This is a stupid myth.

Though for the ich to be completely gone it must be fishless for 6 weeks. Some ich cyst have been found to resist for 71 days, but that's rare. Still...you cannot be sure if you only quarantine your coral for 30 days that you will be 100% ich free.

If you add fish without quarantine with hyposalinity then there is a very good risk that you have ich in your tank. Often it is on the fish gill and it is not apparent and the fish fight it off. It does not mean that a fish that carry ich will show any sign of it, so treating with hyposalinity when ever possible is a good practice.

Avoiding ich is very hard since a fish can seem healthy and still carry it. A very strict quarantine on everything is required.

Originally Posted by abcha0s

That get's my vote for rediculous? - If I don't say it, someone else will.


As soon as I add fish, there is a risk of adding ich, but it is only a risk. If I add one fish that has never been exposed to ich, then there is no ich in my tank. Period.

[daniella3d]

copper is poison. I would be much more worried about the fish liver instead of the invertabrates.

Originally Posted by Frenchie2

Those pellets contain a tiny bit of cooper but will not endanger your invertebres.