Show Us Your LED Tanks

[Palmer]

I guess if I applied my logic to cars i should be driving a vintage automobile and I am not. But lately for a lot of tings you have to bring your car to the dealer to get it fixed due to computers and specialized engineering. Will there be a local certified repair specialist for my sophisticated LED fixture?...

[abcha0s]

Some interesting comments for sure. Just for fun, I'll throw in my 2cents.

LED technology is not new and unproven. In fact, it is completely proven by many successful tanks. Fewer here in Canada but there are lot's of success stories on RC and LED lighting is hugely popular in Europe.

With that in mind, there are very few LED solutions that are really ready for mainstream SPS tanks and can fully replace MH lighting. In my opinion, the short list is Vertex Illumina 260, Pacific Sun and ReefTech. All of these solutions will exceed the PAR output of a 250W MH and depending on the configuration will also exceed the PAR output of a 400W MH. All of these solutions are fully controllable with rising sun/Kelvin/Lighting/Etc.

There are of course many niche players in the LED market place, but in my opinion, none of the other solutions are ready for full SPS tanks. There are many reasons for this including light spread, LED density, LED Watts and manufacturer, etc. We can argue this point, but I personally woundn't invest in any solution other than the ones listed above.

Of the three manufactures that I listed, none are first generation solutions. The Vertex product is second generation, the Pacific Sun solution is third generation with the fourth generation set to launch very soon. ReefTech is a new company but the technology is an evolution of Pacific Sun.

LED pricing will come down a little bit, but not enough to justify waiting if you need the lights now. All of the solutions I mentioned are modular and upgradable when new LED chips come out.

Specifically, CREE has released a new XPE High Effeciency White (HEW) chip that I figure will show up in Reef lights soon. It is said to be 50% brighter than the standard XPE chip which should make it equivelent to the XPG chips but at a lower cost.

Also interesting is the trend away from optics. Of the three leading manufactures (Vertex, Pacific Sun, ReefTech), none of these use optics. Pacific Sun and ReefTech have optics as an option, but they basically only recommend them for very deep tanks. I personally agree that if the light intensity is sufficient without optics, they should not be necessary and I would not use them.

I guess we have to mention AI - They use optics, but but I have concerns about the solution in general. I'm not going to say much about this solution other than I just don't think it qualifies for the short list.

The magic number for LED lighting seems to be 160W per 2 foot of tank based on CREE XPG White.

Vertex Illuminata X00 series - 80W per foot
Vertex Illuminata 260 series - Can't find the data - It's at least the same as the X00
Pacific Sun - 160W and 190W modules
ReefTech LED - 180W modules

There will continue to be more and more inovation and the next generation fixtures will likely be even more impressive, but that is true of everything in the consumer market. At some point you have to buy in. The real question is whether the technology has matured enough to justify the investment and in my opinion it has.

[Milad]

abcha0s im not sure if i agree with you on the optics

if you do not use optics, you are restricted to the old way of thinking on mounting a light over your tank. few inches above the water level.

If you use optics, you got alot more options to think out of the box. Mounting it up against the ceiling high above your tank for a unique look.

I think part of the problem with these pre made fixtures is that everyone is following the old school way of doing lighting. LEDs give you so many new options like spot lighting an area in your tank and having shadows in other areas, using different colors all along your tank, etc etc

thanks one of my pep peevs about "kits". you are restricted to what someone says it should be made like.

dont think inside the box!

[Lampshade]

Wow, this turned from a tank shot page to a Why LED page quick :P

My 2 cents. Cost isn't going to be huge saving, like people have said and showed, cost of builds and electricity savings are going to eventually pay off the LEDS. But as also stated, people are assuming the LED's and drivers won't malfunction during that time (technically they shouldn't... but...). Same goes with MH too though, as i'm sure anybody using an old humming ballast knows.

The HUGE benifit in my opinion is the wave length on LED's... it doesn't change. No color shifting after 6 months like MH(even the best bulb will have some shift.) The output is at least 70% after 5 years of 12 hours a day use. Most people are underdriving their DIY systems, so they can increase to get that 70% back later on. Big setups are usually driven to max, but have sufficient cooling so that it won't matter.

People ahave been arguing the PAR rating etc, but PAR is a poor measure of what we need, most meters check all light between 400nm-700nm and give back the average over that amount. What we really need is the used wavelengthss since coral doesn't use an average from 400nm-700nm. PUR is better, but hard to measure. What you CAN see is the output of LED's on a wavelenth compared to what algee needs to grow. This is why i'm going LED's(not cree LED's or a good MH bulb/balast, but you can find wavelengths for both from cree's site and from sanjay's site, just a good general example)


Here's some links on LED's that should relate to this "tank pics":

benfits:
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...owtopic=186982
Tank Pics(nano's but shows):
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...owtopic=200335
LED build with par readings(my favorite LED tank so far):
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1761942
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&postcount=388 (vid's)

Here's a pic of that tank(Not Mine, one on RC):

[Skimmerking]

Originally Posted by Dez

I just use cheap China MH bulbs - 3 years worth for just over $100 (9 x 250 watt halides)

Dez how are they working out for you what are the par readings like and what are the 10K's like are they white or the 14K are they dark looking

[Jackie]

That's why I decided to try them out side by side.
Left: Weipro is the cheapest but not even close to acceptable. Money wasted.
Middle: KEY Aquarium LED, entry level LED. Color is good and soft coral is growing fast. I got a small Birsnest frag and will see how it does. BTA is doing ok too.
Right: Marineland Reef LED. Newly setup, need more time and more frags to test, but color is not as good as the KEY.

Originally Posted by Jackie

Left: Weipro LED
Middle: KEY Aquarium LED
Right: Marineland Reef LED

[mseepman]

Originally Posted by Jackie

That's why I decided to try them out side by side.
Left: Weipro is the cheapest but not even close to acceptable. Money wasted.
Middle: KEY Aquarium LED, entry level LED. Color is good and soft coral is growing fast. I got a small Birsnest frag and will see how it does. BTA is doing ok too.
Right: Marineland Reef LED. Newly setup, need more time and more frags to test, but color is not as good as the KEY.

So on the Key LED light, did you order the CREE version or did you go with their standard non-cree version. Which Key LED is that?

[Jackie]

It is the CREE version. 72cm wide version.

Originally Posted by mseepman

So on the Key LED light, did you order the CREE version or did you go with their standard non-cree version. Which Key LED is that?

[kien]

my 150g reef tank lit by one Panorama 36 LED Retrofit

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by sphelps

I'm not trying to support or not support LEDs, OP asked about LEDs for a 100 gallon, since I'm considering the same thing and have experience with almost all forms of lighting I simply stated the saving will not be "huge" and it may not be worth while if the tank won't be kept for long term and if the goal is better color for SPS.

Steve, do you even currently run an LED setup on one of your tanks? Has anyone run an LED fixture for 11 years and compared PAR ratings?

the rating for 50,000 hours is right from the cree data sheet, as is the drop off rating for MH's the reason for the drop off in MH is due to the gas and rare metals inside being subjected to the heat inside the bulb. I was looking at the specks for the MH we use int he arena which last longer than the bulbs we use on the tank and they have a 60% dropp off after 20,000 hours and believe me I can tell looking at them as there are a bunch we need to change haha. the rating for the cree is something like 15% after 50,000 hours and because there is no gas or rare earth metals that are being heated and vaporized over and over there is also no color change. also running the new crees at 700mA instead of 1000, or even the rated 1500mA extends the life even longer.

as for running them 11 years I doubt it but I do know street light using high power LEDs have been around for about that so I suspect that the manufactures know what the actual drop off is as it only takes 5 years at 24/7 to get to 50000 hours.

like you I have run the full gambit of lighting, spent over 10K doing it on my 90 gal. wish I didn't but 10 years ago there was no info on lighting.

for the record I am a MH guy, I think T5s are way over rated but good for supplementing color, But I have been playing with Leds for about 5 years maybe more now but for the purpose of moonlighting and supplemental color as the powerful ones were just to expensive until recently.

now for a 30 gal tank (which I am putting together now although it will be a very slow build, as I have to insulate, drywall and heat my shop first) LEDs make way more sense.

this tank will be a SPS high light requirement tank.

the metal halide way I am looking at two fixtures at 250 watt each. I could get away with one, but from experience with my 90 gal and my PAR meter even using a good reflector looses a lot of light at the edges and I find the PAR drop off is significant enough outside of the 20 inch square. to even this out you have to raise the light farther which also drops the overall intensity. so in order to get the levels I want I am looking at two fixtures which will give me about 400 PAR on the tank bottom.

Also I will require a 12" box on top of the tank to enclose the fixture and prevent light spillage. kinda looks funny on a smaller tank

I also like a color in between 10K and 14K so MH bulbs alone don't cut it..

so a decent MH setup from J&L is 312 each x 2 is 622.00
to add 2 DIY T5 bulbs, standoffs, ballast and reflector is 170.00 granted most will be satisfied with 1 MH so for this example we will use 1. so 311.00 plus 170 = 481.00 plus what ever it costs to make you canopy.

if you want to go with a sleek fixture and have a open top like the LED will give me then you are looking at 583 for a 24" fixture with one 250 watt mh and two 24" t5s

for me to do LED for my tank I can get a 48 Ultra Premium LED DIY Kit with Dimmable Drivers for 460 plus 80 for the heat sink, so 540.00 all together. granted I have to build it. and we can add a little more to make it look sweet (like building a hood)

Now this set up with 40 degree optics will also give me PAR levels of 400 on the bottom of my tank.

so the initial purchase on the first MH setup is 60 bucks cheaper and the second MH is more expensive.

power consumption on the MH setup is going to be about 420 watts for a magnetic M80 ballast which I like better because of the higher outputs or about 350 watts for a fancy electronic ballast model plus the T5s so say about 70 watts so 490 or 420.

for the LED set up the power consumption with be about 146.88 watts so a little over 1/3rd of the electronic ballast option.

now the subjective parts. my preferred combo is AB 10K 250 watt SE with uri super actinic VHO the 13K of the ab's plus the URI VHO give a color that is simply unbeatable and the power to match, but the AB bulbs are 180 each. so now my MH set up is going to increase by 100 for a 1MH set up to 200 for a 2 bulb set up but if you like the look of other bulbs that are cheaper then thats a mute point. and I will use 80 buck bulbs as an average for this comparison.

so 11 years changing bulbs once a year for the MH setup is going to be
1430.00 assuming all bulbs last 1 year even the T5s
so now total costs for hardware is

MH 1911.00
LED 540.00

in my case the LEDs save me money before I turn them on, which for a small tank make it more desirable in a small single tank it will take 1 bulb change to make the LEDs cheaper.

lets talk about pros and cons on a small volume tank (say under 50 gal)

PROs

MH
proven track record and the power to grow anything well.
simple to buy and install
wide selections of bulbs

LEDs
proven track record up to 3 years in Canada and US is common, longer in Europe and Asia.
no radiant heat
any color combination you want changeable at whim.
lighting effects from gradual dimming to rock shows able to be made by adding a 70 buck PC controller like and adrunio setup.
directed narrow spread light so light is only where you want it.

CONs

MH
have to change bulb to change color
lots of radiant heat into water
large enclosure/hood required to contain light

LEDs
expensive for a ready made solution, cheaper if you have the skill to build yourself
shorter track record than MH, but still longer than T5's

one thing I haven't mentioned is actual electricity costs. BC has one of the lowest power costs in north America so on the example tank the difference might be only 8 bucks a month in power consumption but imagine what it might be in California?

another thing to note is actual power requirements to the tank area.. especially on a larger tank. how many circuits do you need for your MH lighting. even on my 30 gal in the example with the two 250 watt MH I will need two 15 amp circuits to run it. if I go with the LED I can run the whole tank on 1 circuit.

another thing that is a huge huge concern on a small tank that I haven't gotten into is heat. one 250 watt MH on a 30 gal tank is going to make a lot of heat and in most cases will require a chiller. so the cost of this plus the power to run it should be taken into account also.

Finlay I am not pushing LEDs only stating the opinions I have formulated over 5 or more years of tinkering with them, and especially from my research in the last year and a bit on the high power LEDs like the Cree.
they just make sense.. to many pros and to many savings.. it just to bad that instead of a 100% mark up that they companies who are making decent fixtures are doing anywhere from a 500 to a 1000% mark up over the cost to make them.

Steve