Show Us Your LED Tanks

[sphelps]

I don't recall a time T5HOs where much more than they are now, I remember some fixtures costing more than others but it's still that way. The difference I find is that back then fixtures and bulbs were hard to get in Canada and you had to order them from the states which cost a lot with shipping and duty. Maybe I'm not going back as far as some others remember.

I don't really buy into the fact LEDs will come down as much as people seem to think. Prices will drop a little as more competition comes in and more products become available but I don't expect to see a 4K fixture sell for 1K in a few years unless it's discontinued, refurbished or used. You can buy cheap LED fixtures now but they don't have controllers or quality LEDs. Solaris fixtures were pricey when they came out and that was quite a long time ago yet today's fixtures are still in the same range if not more, they are however better fixtures but that's the same with any market (this years cars are better than last years but new price is still the same). So how long before LEDs are cheap? We're not getting any younger

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by sphelps

I don't recall a time T5HOs where much more than they are now, I remember some fixtures costing more than others but it's still that way. The difference I find is that back then fixtures and bulbs were hard to get in Canada and you had to order them from the states which cost a lot with shipping and duty. Maybe I'm not going back as far as some others remember.

I don't really buy into the fact LEDs will come down as much as people seem to think. Prices will drop a little as more competition comes in and more products become available but I don't expect to see a 4K fixture sell for 1K in a few years unless it's discontinued, refurbished or used. You can buy cheap LED fixtures now but they don't have controllers or quality LEDs. Solaris fixtures were pricey when they came out and that was quite a long time ago yet today's fixtures are still in the same range if not more, they are however better fixtures but that's the same with any market (this years cars are better than last years but new price is still the same). So how long before LEDs are cheap? We're not getting any younger

Cant agree with you there.
LED business is EXPLODING, there are tonnes of new developments in the technology and manufacturing process and more and more companies joining the fray either directly or through joint ventures...this is called an emerging market and the automobile market is an established and stagnant market with no new players joining the fray for some time....electronic vehicles however fit perfectly into the emerging market category with the first all electric Chevy volt having a stocker of arund 45,000$ (and the first one sold at auction for over 200,000$) with Chevy already anticipating a better version (longer travel per charge) and a lower sticker price in the next model year...

This is just the laws of supply and demand at work here, as more competiton enters the supply side, competition leads to lower prices unless there is as much of a significant increase in demand..which given the hobby, seems unlikely.

Look at how much an old aqualight Advance would have cost you 7 or 8 years ago...over 2K for a 48" one and all they had was MH...no led or supplements.

now you can buy a comparable unit for less than half of that price that comes with LEDs and supplements and offer a better design to boot.

There are already these "cheap" designs you metioned...these will only get more advanced as time goes by...I would be shicked if n the next 3 years, we didnt have a "cheap" model that rivalled everything the current Vertex can do and then some.

This process has already been slowed down due to some patent issues (pfo solaris anyone) in the states but that too wll pass and lead to a eve bigger wave of manufacturers getting involved.

[lastlight]

I think something that will effect what you're talking about is how the types of lighting are attained. With mh and T5 you have a few bulbs in a setup. The bulbs aren't going to get much cheaper. LED units contain hundreds of these repeating parts and their cost I would assume will drop quite a bit from where they are now. With there being so many of them in a unit their unit price doesn't need to go down that much for the overall price to be affected a lot.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by gobytron

Cant agree with you there.
LED business is EXPLODING, there are tonnes of new developments in the technology and manufacturing process and more and more companies joining the fray either directly or through joint ventures...this is called an emerging market and the automobile market is an established and stagnant market with no new players joining the fray for some time....electronic vehicles however fit perfectly into the emerging market category with the first all electric Chevy volt having a stocker of arund 45,000$ (and the first one sold at auction for over 200,000$) with Chevy already anticipating a better version (longer travel per charge) and a lower sticker price in the next model year...

This is just the laws of supply and demand at work here, as more competiton enters the supply side, competition leads to lower prices unless there is as much of a significant increase in demand..which given the hobby, seems unlikely.

Look at how much an old aqualight Advance would have cost you 7 or 8 years ago...over 2K for a 48" one and all they had was MH...no led or supplements.

now you can buy a comparable unit for less than half of that price that comes with LEDs and supplements and offer a better design to boot.

There are already these "cheap" designs you metioned...these will only get more advanced as time goes by...I would be shicked if n the next 3 years, we didnt have a "cheap" model that rivalled everything the current Vertex can do and then some.

This process has already been slowed down due to some patent issues (pfo solaris anyone) in the states but that too wll pass and lead to a eve bigger wave of manufacturers getting involved.

Yes I agree with the theory but that's all it really is, a theory. Solaris fixtures came out in 2007, that was 4 years ago and yet no price drop in LED fixtures yet, some cost more. So in another 3 years you expect to see a 75% reduction in price? Give me a break dude. I'll put money down that LED fixtures will not drop more than 20% in the next three years, if that.

[ReefOcean]

Originally Posted by sphelps

I don't really buy into the fact LEDs will come down as much as people seem to think.

Percvisely. Sort of like how Metal halide arent coming down, yet there is competition for cheaper chinese products like odyssea.

People tend to forget the prices are set to tollerances created by the consumer. Not by competition. It is the consumer that decides that the prices are too high from company A, and decides to go to company B. Just Because company B is cheaper, doesnt mean company A through Z is going to lower prices.

There is also a matter of technology and patents. High power LEDs cost a lot of money per unit. Cicuitry, drivers and power supplies from respectible manufactureres cost money as well. When you are buying a system like Vertex and the late PFO Solaris, you are paying for the materials, and a niche-market adjusted margin. Yes, let's not forget that the aquarium market is a niche, in a niche-market companies have to increase their margines to adjust for the fact their market is small, and volume sales are low.

Besides, there ARE cheap LED fixtures out there, but they are made with substandard materials.

Expect their pricing to stay relatively the same for a very long time.

[whatcaneyedo]

Originally Posted by ReefOcean

Percvisely. Sort of like how Metal halide arent coming down, yet there is competition for cheaper chinese products like odyssea.t mean company A through Z is going to lower prices.

You sure? The price of each of my metal halide pendants has dropped $50 in the last 3 years.


... So does anyone have any LED tank pictures to show off?

[daniella3d]

what about colour in SPS with LED? Everyone I know who tried LED with SPS changed that after a year or two because they did not like how the color in their SPS turned out.

What about a hot pink birdnest under LED? what about those crazy color we seen in SPS? can it be done with LED and if so, where are the pics?

[ReefOcean]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

You sure? The price of each of my metal halide pendants has dropped $50 in the last 3 years.


... So does anyone have any LED tank pictures to show off?

From where? I bet you, that manufactuer wholesale prices didnt go down. Perhaps the company adjusted it's price integrity and allowed retailers to sell for less. Perhaps the company outsourced to China and it temporarily beinifting from lower production costs. There are a lot of variables. Regardless, inflation and volume usually effects the cost of goods. If these products are made in China, guaranteed that prices are going up, not down.

If they are made in the US and Canada, where inflation is a bit more under control you wont see a significant price drop but not a price increase either. People have to understand. LED lights are not PCs or cars. They arent purchased by everybody on the planet. There arent investors chucking billions at Vertex, building up their infrastructure. It just simply isnt economically plausable.

Not to mention, the patents that need to be paid to manufacture these things. When you consider base cost for material, a limited consumer base and inflation, prices will not drop and if they do, I would not invest money into those companies that are desperately dropping prices to save themselves...they are going under.

[whatcaneyedo]

Originally Posted by ReefOcean

From where? I bet you, that manufactuer wholesale prices didnt go down. Perhaps the company adjusted it's price integrity and allowed retailers to sell for less. Perhaps the company outsourced to China and it temporarily beinifting from lower production costs. There are a lot of variables. Regardless, inflation and volume usually effects the cost of goods. If these products are made in China, guaranteed that prices are going up, not down.

If they are made in the US and Canada, where inflation is a bit more under control you wont see a significant price drop but not a price increase either. People have to understand. LED lights are not PCs or cars. They arent purchased by everybody on the planet. There arent investors chucking billions at Vertex, building up their infrastructure. It just simply isnt economically plausable.

Not to mention, the patents that need to be paid to manufacture these things. When you consider base cost for material, a limited consumer base and inflation, prices will not drop and if they do, I would not invest money into those companies that are desperately dropping prices to save themselves...they are going under.

Sorry it was $40 not $50. I found my old receipt which says $169.95, currently on their website they are $129.95. They are Lumenmax 3s that I bought at J&L.

Everyone in the developed world is using LEDs now. They're in consumer goods, homes, office buildings and industrial plants. They're also in PCs and cars.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

Sorry it was $40 not $50. I found my old receipt which says $169.95, currently on their website they are $129.95. They are Lumenmax 3s that I bought at J&L.

Everyone in the developed world is using LEDs now. They're in consumer goods, homes, office buildings and industrial plants. They're also in PCs and cars.

Where is this developed world?? I've never seen an office building or industrial plant that uses LEDs for lighting and I'm a contractor that works in different offices and manufacturing plants all the time. Also I just got a new house, no LEDs anywhere and there really wasn't much available for fixtures with the exception of a few over priced dim bulbs and under cabinet lighting. Even new street lights still use HPS even though new LED streetlights exist cities are just not buying into them.

LED technology is great but it's still developing and has a long way to go before it's as popular as you seem to think it is. Will LED prices go down, yes but not in the way you think off. New LEDs with higher efficiency are released every damn day, the LEDs I purchased a few months back are now cheaper and obs. They've been replaced with a new model which is better but also more expensive... Quite simply prices will remain the same for the latest and greatest but cheaper options will always exist but nobody wants those

In this LED game plan on spending a decent amount with no chance of being able to recover your costs in resale as your fixture will be obs in as little as a few months. Plan to keep it long enough to cover your costs in efficiency savings alone or better yet buy it for other reasons all together.

Also keep in mind your halides don't become obs, they have been consistently the latest and greatest MHs for years and many years to come. Oh and you over paid for your reflectors, I purchased my luminarc 3 several years ago for $130. Hence the price drop really has nothing to do the technology fading.