abcha0s' 300G Ultimate Reef

[abcha0s]

It would be great if the Apex had the granularity to control the wavebox directly, but it seems impossible to fine tune the wavebox using only the apex. The benifit is really to link the wavebox with the programmed feed cycles and night mode.

There's a trick to make this work.

I used the wavebox controller (6091) to set the wave and used the Apex controller to enable/disable the 6091 wave function.

The wiring diagram looks like this:



The Y adapter isn't strictly necessary but it makes things much easier because it serves as a gender changer for the cables. Both the wavebox controller (6091) and Apex have male ends whereas the Y adapter is female.

The second wavebox isn't necessary either. However, if two waveboxes are deployed in this configuration, they have to be on the same end of the tank running in synchronous mode.

The jumper in the 6091 controller needs to be set to slave mode to enable control from the Apex.

I haven't spent a lot of time experimenting with diffent voltages, but in the simpliest of terms:

10V from Apex = 6091 stops creating a wave. The pump shuts off.
0V from Apex = 6091 opperates in wave mode.

This seems counter intuitive, but it does make sense on one front. If the 6091 controller is disconnected from the Apex it opperates independantly and generates a wave. Therefore, it is not dependant on the Apex for opperation, rather it is dependant on the Apex to know when to shut off.

I plan on doing some more experimentation with this configuration, but for now I can confirm that it works.

This configuration is documented here:
• Tunze Wavebox (6215) and Powerheads.........Post 28

[wickedfrags]

Outstanding build thread, and a well thought out build.

Question - I did not notice the tank drilled for a closed-loop system. With tank this size how did you decide this was not for you?

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by wickedfrags.com

Outstanding build thread, and a well thought out build.

Question - I did not notice the tank drilled for a closed-loop system. With tank this size how did you decide this was not for you?

Hey - Thanks for note. That's a good question!

I ran a closed loop on my current tank (90G). It was based on two seperate loops (left and right) using an Oceans Motion Super Squirt 4-way on each loop. Each loop was driven by a Poseidon PS4 pump. The flow patterns were very dynamic and the system was silent. Overall, it worked perfectly but last spring I pulled it out and replaced it with Tunze powerheads.

There was really only one thing that I liked about the closed loop when compared to powerheads. When viewing the tank through the front pannel, it was barely visible. Aesthetically a closed loop wins every time, but that seems to be where the benefits end.

I pulled the closed loop out of my 90G for a couple of reasons. The first being the heat generated by the two Poseidon pumps. The second being the electrical consumption and the third being the maintenance of the pumps.

Here's the math that I worked through.

Closed Loop - 160W Power per pump - 1,200Gph per pump - Add 2-3 degrees F of heat to tank - silent
Powerheads - Max 48W per Tunze 6205 - 1,320 to 5,811 USgal./h - Doesn't add any noticable heat - silent

The 6205s are way to powerful for my 90G. I run them alternating at 30% power - I really bought them for this tank (300G).

The point is, a closed loop costs more money than powerheads, is either louder or adds heat (trade off for water cooled pumps), and can't match the flow rates.

Granted there are some cool things that you can do with a closed loop which aren't possible with powerheads, but the reverse is also true. Consider the various modes that a Vortex pump can opperate in.

I also like the fact that I can move the powerheads as the tank matures and corals grow. I can ramp up and down between 30% and 100% power. Cleaning is as easy as a vinigar soak.

All of these things were weighing on me when I envisioned this tank. When Steve Weast said that he wouldn't build a closed loop into his next tank because of the complexities and maintenance requirements, the decision seemed altogether obvious.

In my opinion, simple is always better. Although I completely agree that they are ugly, there's nothing simpler than a powerhead.

[wickedfrags]

Well thought out.

For me both a closed loop system with powerheads make sense (then again I gave up on energy efficiency). I like the closed loop as it is essentially failsafe, requires little to no maintenance, is hidden, and can provide random "general" tank circulation. Powerheads are always required later on as the tank matures and as flow requirements increase. Nice to see powerheads getting smaller and moving more water.

Look forward to more updates.

[lastlight]

Originally Posted by abcha0s

When Steve Weast said that he wouldn't build a closed loop into his next tank because of the complexities and maintenance requirements, the decision seemed altogether obvious.

Did I miss something? I didn't know he had started on his new tank? Where is the build located?

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by lastlight

Did I miss something? I didn't know he had started on his new tank? Where is the build located?

Hi Brett - No you didn't miss anything. I wondered if someone was going to call me on that. Maybe I should have left out the name dropping.

Anyway...

From Melev's Podcast "Reefcast 29b" - 12/29/08
Interview with Steve Weast
Time - 35m50s

"On my next system, there’s no way that I’m going to drill the bottom of the tank because I want that 100% fail safe that it’s impossible because there are no holes. I think I can achieve the same thing that my closed loop - and maybe surpass it - by through waveboxes and powerheads whether their Tunzes or something else under the rockwork but that are still accessible that I can pull them out and unclog them or clean them and put them right back in – just like my last tank was – those 4 Tunzes were perfectly accessible." - Steve Weast

(it's a conversation - I tried to transcribe it word for word)

Of course you have to consider the overall context of his comments and there's no way that I'm typing out any more than that. After listening to the interview a second time, I think I missed his point somewhat. It seems that Steve was more concerned about the safety considerations with his closed loop as opposed to "complexities" as I suggested. Although he does talk about pump maintenance which was a big part of my decision not to use a closed loop.

However, he is pretty clear about not wanting another closed loop and considering the one that he did have was awesome, I think his comments are a valid reference to my point of view.

I haven't heard anything about a "next tank". He does suggest in his comment that their might be a next tank, but some of his other comments also suggest that he really wanted to get out of the hobby completely.

I have to admit, that when I first read about his tank, it was very inspiring. His aquascaping influenced the tank that I am currently setting up.

- Brad

[abcha0s]

Whenever you think of heat in a reef tank, you immediately think of chillers and evaporative cooling. Well, at least that's the first thing that came to my mind. Heating a tank is just an after thought for the occasional cold night.

I am having a real problem with heating my tank. Without the lights on, the ambient water temperature is around 65F. That's with all of the pumps and power heads running. That's not even close to 78F.

I'm going to be lighting this tank with LEDs. There's very little radiant heat from these lights.

I've done tons of research on LED lighting and everyone points out that without MH lighting, you don't need a chiller. This equates to cost savings in both capital and operational expenses. Well, not if you consume huge amounts energy heating the tank?

I have 4 Marineland Visitherm 300W heaters hooked up right now and the tank is really struggling to approach 78F. That's 1200W of heating! Do I need more?

I'm well aware of the problems with heaters including stuck on, stuck off, exploding, etc. I have the 4 heaters connected to my Apex. In the future I may split this load across 2 Apex controllers (2 on each). I'm reasonably confident in this approach and should be able to catch a disaster before it happens.

I've also noted that the sump temp is generally cooler than the display tank. I haven't yet measured the exact variation, but it seems consistent.

I'm currently heating the return section of the sump and measuring the temp in the chamber right before the return section. Therefore, heated water has to circulate through the tank and back to the sump before the temperature sensor is able to detect a change. This seemed like a good idea as it ensure that the heated water fully mixes before the temperature measurement is taken, but I am less sure of this now.



I'm also considering insulating the sump, but I'm really not sure how much that would help?

Does anyone have any experience or advice in keeping tanks warm? - Is there a better approach to this? - Are titanium heaters really more efficient (I've heard of higher than average failure rates, but possibly better performance)?

I appreciate the feedback...

- Brad

[phi delt reefer]

have verified that all four heaters work? I would put each one in a 5 gallon bucket of water and test them

also the apex and other controllers sometimes have outlets that only work for certain things (relayed outlets or something) You may want to make sure the apex is actually able to power the heater on each of the outlets you're using.