abcha0s' 300G Ultimate Reef

[kien]

That is a massive update, coming along nicely! However, no pictures?!? Booooooooooooooo!!!

[abcha0s]

@John - I took some tips from your aquascaping. I would have tended to put as much rock as I could fit in the tank. After seeing your tank, I used way less and really like the result.

@Tony - Thanks for the comments. I'm probably about a month behind your build. At the point where it's getting exciting.

I really had no idea about the laundy tank and building code. Ignorance is bliss. I guess at some point I will have to get around to fixing that. I don't think tearing up the concrete is an option, but the main drain may be reachable. Not a high priority, but something to do in the spring. I appreciate the tip.

@Skimmer_King - What pop up pages? - Just Kidding.

Two thoughts...

1) Most of the images in the thread are compressed for two reasons. Firstly to keep the page load times quick and secondly because the images are served from my Shaw connection and I don't want to overload it too much. I figure if an image is interesting, clicking for a high res version is reasonable.

2) If you were referring to the odd layout of the thread, well it seemed like a good idea at the time. In hind sight, it might have been more trouble than it was worth. I was really trying to set up the thread so that all of the content was in the first couple of pages. It can be frustrating trying to find things burried in some of the huge build threads here. In any event, it's too late to change it now.

Nice cabinets BTW - I plan on building pannels for my stand and using magnets to hold them in place.

@Kien - Thanks for the encouragement. I'll see what I can come up with for some new pics.

[abcha0s]

It would be great if the Apex had the granularity to control the wavebox directly, but it seems impossible to fine tune the wavebox using only the apex. The benifit is really to link the wavebox with the programmed feed cycles and night mode.

There's a trick to make this work.

I used the wavebox controller (6091) to set the wave and used the Apex controller to enable/disable the 6091 wave function.

The wiring diagram looks like this:



The Y adapter isn't strictly necessary but it makes things much easier because it serves as a gender changer for the cables. Both the wavebox controller (6091) and Apex have male ends whereas the Y adapter is female.

The second wavebox isn't necessary either. However, if two waveboxes are deployed in this configuration, they have to be on the same end of the tank running in synchronous mode.

The jumper in the 6091 controller needs to be set to slave mode to enable control from the Apex.

I haven't spent a lot of time experimenting with diffent voltages, but in the simpliest of terms:

10V from Apex = 6091 stops creating a wave. The pump shuts off.
0V from Apex = 6091 opperates in wave mode.

This seems counter intuitive, but it does make sense on one front. If the 6091 controller is disconnected from the Apex it opperates independantly and generates a wave. Therefore, it is not dependant on the Apex for opperation, rather it is dependant on the Apex to know when to shut off.

I plan on doing some more experimentation with this configuration, but for now I can confirm that it works.

This configuration is documented here:
• Tunze Wavebox (6215) and Powerheads.........Post 28

[wickedfrags]

Outstanding build thread, and a well thought out build.

Question - I did not notice the tank drilled for a closed-loop system. With tank this size how did you decide this was not for you?

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by wickedfrags.com

Outstanding build thread, and a well thought out build.

Question - I did not notice the tank drilled for a closed-loop system. With tank this size how did you decide this was not for you?

Hey - Thanks for note. That's a good question!

I ran a closed loop on my current tank (90G). It was based on two seperate loops (left and right) using an Oceans Motion Super Squirt 4-way on each loop. Each loop was driven by a Poseidon PS4 pump. The flow patterns were very dynamic and the system was silent. Overall, it worked perfectly but last spring I pulled it out and replaced it with Tunze powerheads.

There was really only one thing that I liked about the closed loop when compared to powerheads. When viewing the tank through the front pannel, it was barely visible. Aesthetically a closed loop wins every time, but that seems to be where the benefits end.

I pulled the closed loop out of my 90G for a couple of reasons. The first being the heat generated by the two Poseidon pumps. The second being the electrical consumption and the third being the maintenance of the pumps.

Here's the math that I worked through.

Closed Loop - 160W Power per pump - 1,200Gph per pump - Add 2-3 degrees F of heat to tank - silent
Powerheads - Max 48W per Tunze 6205 - 1,320 to 5,811 USgal./h - Doesn't add any noticable heat - silent

The 6205s are way to powerful for my 90G. I run them alternating at 30% power - I really bought them for this tank (300G).

The point is, a closed loop costs more money than powerheads, is either louder or adds heat (trade off for water cooled pumps), and can't match the flow rates.

Granted there are some cool things that you can do with a closed loop which aren't possible with powerheads, but the reverse is also true. Consider the various modes that a Vortex pump can opperate in.

I also like the fact that I can move the powerheads as the tank matures and corals grow. I can ramp up and down between 30% and 100% power. Cleaning is as easy as a vinigar soak.

All of these things were weighing on me when I envisioned this tank. When Steve Weast said that he wouldn't build a closed loop into his next tank because of the complexities and maintenance requirements, the decision seemed altogether obvious.

In my opinion, simple is always better. Although I completely agree that they are ugly, there's nothing simpler than a powerhead.

[wickedfrags]

Well thought out.

For me both a closed loop system with powerheads make sense (then again I gave up on energy efficiency). I like the closed loop as it is essentially failsafe, requires little to no maintenance, is hidden, and can provide random "general" tank circulation. Powerheads are always required later on as the tank matures and as flow requirements increase. Nice to see powerheads getting smaller and moving more water.

Look forward to more updates.

[lastlight]

Originally Posted by abcha0s

When Steve Weast said that he wouldn't build a closed loop into his next tank because of the complexities and maintenance requirements, the decision seemed altogether obvious.

Did I miss something? I didn't know he had started on his new tank? Where is the build located?

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by lastlight

Did I miss something? I didn't know he had started on his new tank? Where is the build located?

Hi Brett - No you didn't miss anything. I wondered if someone was going to call me on that. Maybe I should have left out the name dropping.

Anyway...

From Melev's Podcast "Reefcast 29b" - 12/29/08
Interview with Steve Weast
Time - 35m50s

"On my next system, there’s no way that I’m going to drill the bottom of the tank because I want that 100% fail safe that it’s impossible because there are no holes. I think I can achieve the same thing that my closed loop - and maybe surpass it - by through waveboxes and powerheads whether their Tunzes or something else under the rockwork but that are still accessible that I can pull them out and unclog them or clean them and put them right back in – just like my last tank was – those 4 Tunzes were perfectly accessible." - Steve Weast

(it's a conversation - I tried to transcribe it word for word)

Of course you have to consider the overall context of his comments and there's no way that I'm typing out any more than that. After listening to the interview a second time, I think I missed his point somewhat. It seems that Steve was more concerned about the safety considerations with his closed loop as opposed to "complexities" as I suggested. Although he does talk about pump maintenance which was a big part of my decision not to use a closed loop.

However, he is pretty clear about not wanting another closed loop and considering the one that he did have was awesome, I think his comments are a valid reference to my point of view.

I haven't heard anything about a "next tank". He does suggest in his comment that their might be a next tank, but some of his other comments also suggest that he really wanted to get out of the hobby completely.

I have to admit, that when I first read about his tank, it was very inspiring. His aquascaping influenced the tank that I am currently setting up.

- Brad