Tang Police or Tang Nazis?

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by jorjef

Sweet Louise someone burn the soapbox, dismatle the pulpit, steal the microphone, turn the lights out.....These type of threads make me howl......We all keep fish in boxes, no one is any better than the next...get over it...lol

I don't know that there is a lot of soapbox preaching going on here. Usually everyone behaves in a more or less civilized manner. In this instance, an article like this was put up for the explicit sake of discussing this topic and it's been/being discussed. If the OP just wanted a Tang Police Bash thread he would've stated that in his headline. It's not much of a discussion if the only ones commenting are the guys saying "STFU Tang Police, I'll do what I want".

As for no-one being any better than the next I will disagree. There is absolutely a difference between the person that takes into consideration all the factors relating to the well-being of his/her tanks inhabitants when making a purchase and the person who says "I don't care, I want tangs so I'll put 4 of them in my 33 gallon". In our hobby, not taking these things into consideration also has the side-effect of making it an unsuccessful attempt resulting in the death of a sometimes expensive creature, so most people who have been around a while know better than try some of this stuff for the simple sake of not throwing money down the drain. Call it ethics or economics, I don't care but you'd have to be blind not to see that there are good practices and bad practices.

On a related note, I don't think that there really is a problem with "Tang Police" on this site, on RC it can be absolutely brutal but I really haven't seen a whole lot of cases where people are stalking build threads and saying "You can't keep that fish in this tank". I certainly have never done that, and I have strong feelings on the matter. If someone posts a new thread with the title "Could I keep this fish in my tank", then they are inviting comments and opinions... both positive and negative and usually those of us who say you shouldn't keep it try to do so in a friendly, constructive manner. And I've never seen a thread titled, "I'm awesome and you guys suck because...".

[Skimmerking]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

I
On a related note, I don't think that there really is a problem with "Tang Police" on this site,

MMMMMMMMMMM you must have not met Wayne then.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by Skimmer King

MMMMMMMMMMM you must have not met Wayne then.

shhhhhh he'll hear you lol

[Aquaria]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

As for no-one being any better than the next I will disagree. There is absolutely a difference between the person that takes into consideration all the factors relating to the well-being of his/her tanks inhabitants when making a purchase and the person who says "I don't care, I want tangs so I'll put 4 of them in my 33 gallon". In our hobby, not taking these things into consideration also has the side-effect of making it an unsuccessful attempt resulting in the death of a sometimes expensive creature, so most people who have been around a while know better than try some of this stuff for the simple sake of not throwing money down the drain. Call it ethics or economics, I don't care but you'd have to be blind not to see that there are good practices and bad practices.

just because you keep fish healthy and possibly happy does not take away from the ethics of keeping animals in glass boxes Weither there the recommended size or not to me it sounds like another justification I mean is there really a difference between keeping a tang healthy and happy in a 3' as in a 6'. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like ur saying that there is a big diff in someone who keeps a tang healthy and happy in small tank compared to the guy with a tang in a 6' tank with bad husbandry

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by Aquaria

just because you keep fish healthy and possibly happy does not take away from the ethics of keeping animals in glass boxes Weither there the recommended size or not to me it sounds like another justification I mean is there really a difference between keeping a tang healthy and happy in a 3' as in a 6'. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like ur saying that there is a big diff in someone who keeps a tang healthy and happy in small tank compared to the guy with a tang in a 6' tank with bad husbandry

I agree. One could even argue that there is more stress in 6' tank than a 3' due to the added livestock and aggression that goes along with them. Fish-fish contagion is greater in a larger tank with more fish. The 3' tank may have one alfa male, while the 6' tank may have many competing for the position at the top.

I think tank size difference is negligible (within reason, and with some exceptions) for anything under 5,000 gallons. Whether it takes three movements or one to cover the length of the tank makes no difference in my opinion.

If you are breeding fish or trying to replicate their natural environment for a public display tank size may come into consideration, but for the most part, a glass box is a glass box.

I often read posts where some poor nano tank owner is being berated for having an ocellaris clown, meanwhile clown breeders use 5 gallon tanks because it is the ideal breeding environment.

[Aquaria]

Just to be clear I'm not trying to flame just stating that no one is better then anyone else as we all keep our awesome glass tanks in our little boxes on the hillsides

[Aquaria]

I mean we all know deepdown inside it's the thrill of playing god that's what were all addicted to hahaha

[Aquaria]

Ha your all going to hell well except me because iv acknowledged my sins rofl ;p

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by Aquaria

just because you keep fish healthy and possibly happy does not take away from the ethics of keeping animals in glass boxes Weither there the recommended size or not to me it sounds like another justification I mean is there really a difference between keeping a tang healthy and happy in a 3' as in a 6'. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like ur saying that there is a big diff in someone who keeps a tang healthy and happy in small tank compared to the guy with a tang in a 6' tank with bad husbandry

I think keeping a fish healthy and happy does mitigate the negatives of taking him out of the ocean. It doesn't eliminate them, and I'm not naive enough to think that it does. But I don't see the hypocrisy in saying I'm doing something destructive so I should do what I can to minimize the impact as much as possible. The person who crams 4 tangs into a 3' x 1' tank will likely kill them all and thus wasted a (diminishing) resource.

I think that there really is a difference in stress level for a tang in a 3' x 1' tank vs a 6'x1' tank. If no-one believed that the size of tank mattered we'd all be stuffing 10 gallons with all sorts of fish, when we get to the difference between a 5 or 6 foot tank then I think we're splitting hairs but definitely I believe a 3' x 1' tank is too small. A 3'x3' cube with the rocks set up appropriately on the other hand would probably provide lots of swimming room. In my own experience, a couple of years ago I had a 5'x18" tank and had a purple tang in there. It was a nice well behaved fish, I switched to a 4'x2' tank and when the move was made the tang became much more aggressive with it's tankmates. That said, he stayed healthy and didn't exhibit any other signs of elevated stress. Was a 4 foot tank too small for him, maybe or maybe not but for my own reference I feel that it would be the minimum size I would feel comfortable putting a larger fish like a tang in.

If a guy has a smaller tank and has a fish that's healthy and happy then the fish is better off there then he would be in a larger tank with bad husbandry. What I'm trying to say is that "Good Husbandry" takes into account all the factors that contribute to a fish's health and stress levels. This includes swimming area, water quality, food, etc. A fish that's in too small a tank will not be healthy and stress free. A fish that's in an enormous tank with crummy conditions is not healthy and stress free.

[Aquaria]

I wasn't trying to say the stress levels are diff and that justifies it just that it don't make it Right what we do and will continue to do. The point of this hobby is to one day stop taking from the ocean and trade with others am I wrong. Were all guilty of keeping glassboxs and just because there healthy and happy don't make it ok but are any of us going to go home tonight and shut our tanks down well no I doubt it but what I'm trying to say is the ends do not justify the means but we all love doing it so We are and forever will be guilty of playing god. I for one love it and will continue to do it