copperband twitching its head

[shrimpchips]

You can also try a cleaner shrimp to see if it will help to alleviate the flukes - certainly helped for the potters when it was in qt. I wouldn't use a cleaner fish, as they're just another fish to qt, and they're not terribly long lived in captivity either.

[daniella3d]

That's a good idea because he seem to go near my peppermint in hope of being cleaned by it but the peppermint is not really keen on cleaning the fish and just move away.

Although I am not sure it's going to do the job 100% if there are some flukes on the gills. I looked very hard with a magnifying glass but could not see any flukes. Maybe it,s ich on his gills? When I first got it the fish had one white spot on a fin but that was gone the day after, so not sure what it is at this point. There is no white spots on the fish since that so not sure if that white spot I saw was just a little pimple from being cought in a net.

He's breathing faster in the morning and better in the evening so maybe the micro algae in my aquarium are producing lots of oxygen in the day time and at night it is much lover. I have the pump spraying upward to the surface and I have put a skimmer to help this so I will see.

yesterday he had quite a few episodes of sudden dashing and shaking but he's not scraching or flashing on the rock. He's starting to realise that my pipette is the food source as he now come to the pipette for food and almost eat from it. Still has a good appetite so I want to fatten him up before I treat for parasites.

What I am not sure is weather to go with paraguard or prazi. I don't have access to praziquantal, just prazipro and prazipro is a hit or miss with flukes (was with my discus anyway) as it is too weak. Paraquard treat for flukes and ich. prazi treat for flukes and some internal worms, but does nothing for ich.

hmmm...

Originally Posted by shrimpchips

You can also try a cleaner shrimp to see if it will help to alleviate the flukes - certainly helped for the potters when it was in qt. I wouldn't use a cleaner fish, as they're just another fish to qt, and they're not terribly long lived in captivity either.

[Myka]

If you keep feeding it and you find it isn't fattening up, consider cyanide poisoning. A Methylene Blue dip can help to alleviate symptoms of cyanide poisoning.

[daniella3d]

that's interesting because methylene blue is a antipoison for cyanide in human.

but I am wondering if a fish is poisoned by cyanide if there is actualy some cyanide remaining in its system weeks later. I thought that what was left after cyanide poisoning was liver or kidney dammage and that cyanide itself was gone?

I have that fish for 4 days only.

Originally Posted by Myka

If you keep feeding it and you find it isn't fattening up, consider cyanide poisoning. A Methylene Blue dip can help to alleviate symptoms of cyanide poisoning.

Originally Posted by daniella3d

that's interesting because methylene blue is a antipoison for cyanide in human.

but I am wondering if a fish is poisoned by cyanide if there is actualy some cyanide remaining in its system weeks later. I thought that what was left after cyanide poisoning was liver or kidney dammage and that cyanide itself was gone?

I have that fish for 4 days only.

common signs of cyanide poisoning:
will eat good but over time become none interested in food.
will become lethargic and will not respond as much to stimulation.
IE: show no interest in you when you are close to the tank just kind of hangs out further back in the tank. I have bisected many fish that were collected using cyanide poisoning; I find that the liver is usually bleeding and kiddies are enlarged. Head shaking is not a sign of cyanide poisoning, aimlessly wandering around the tank is..

head shaking red gills inflamed areas on the sides are signs of flukes. I would have to say flukes and Prazi-pro is your best bet. I treat all new fish when acclimating them with prazi-pro. Flukes can be white or a black color depending on the type, some flukes are species specific. I would treat the whole tank, I personally have not lost anything when I had to treat my whole tank my Nem shrunk a bit but that was all.

Yes methanol blue is a poison treatment but by the time we get these fish there is not much we can do for them if they have been collected with cyanide poisoning. We can treat them and prolong their life but that is all, if they have stated to show the signs of cyanide poisoning it been to long of the little guys.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

that's interesting because methylene blue is a antipoison for cyanide in human.

but I am wondering if a fish is poisoned by cyanide if there is actualy some cyanide remaining in its system weeks later. I thought that what was left after cyanide poisoning was liver or kidney dammage and that cyanide itself was gone?

I have that fish for 4 days only.

Where do you think us smrt fishy pple got the idea?

You gotta catch them pretty fast as far as I know, but there aren't many studies on ornamental marine fish so most of our methods are anecdotal at best. Personally, a fish like a CBB which is known to often still be caught with cyanide I would have dipped in MB during acclimation just as a precaution. MB is quite gentle on them, so I see it causing no further stress or harm. More of an anti-stress dip in my experience.

[daniella3d]

I surely hope it's not been cought with cyanide. He does not have the sympthoms of it, just head shaking and darting a bit and a little fast breathing but appetite is good and he's fattening up I think.

I ordered some prazipro and metylene blue and will give him a treatment with prazi in my QT and a dip in methylene blue before that. It's been setup today for this purpose. I don't have to treat my frag tank as it is independant of any other aquarium and any parasite in there will surely die as this aquarium usualy has no fish for months.

I will try a dip in fresh water and methylene blue before I transfer him in the QT for the prazi treatment. I am not sure about treating prazi in my main tank because I have some delicate coral in there like a blue sponge and a non-photosynthetic gorgonian and some expensive zoanthids.

Today the fish seem quite a bit better, breathing better and still with good appetite.

Originally Posted by Myka

Where do you think us smrt fishy pple got the idea?

You gotta catch them pretty fast as far as I know, but there aren't many studies on ornamental marine fish so most of our methods are anecdotal at best. Personally, a fish like a CBB which is known to often still be caught with cyanide I would have dipped in MB during acclimation just as a precaution. MB is quite gentle on them, so I see it causing no further stress or harm. More of an anti-stress dip in my experience.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

I will try a dip in fresh water and methylene blue before I transfer him in the QT for the prazi treatment.

I would observe for at least 24 hours after the FW&MB dip before starting the Prazi treatment. FW&MB is certainly stressful, SW&MB isn't.

Oh, and just to state the obvious in case it isn't obvious...Methylene Blue stains anything it touches pretty much, meaning clothes, skin, silicone, many plastics. I always put on "fish clothes", wear gloves, use a glass beaker for dipping, and a disposable plastic knife to stir up the dip.

[daniella3d]

what would a saltwater and methylene blue achieve? Just releave stress or would it have some effect on fluke or parasites?

I would think that any dip would be stressfull for the fish so might as well make it worth it?

The fish seem to be breathing pretty close to normal today, so that's good. Still twitching the head on regular basis though and darting here and there.

Originally Posted by Myka

I would observe for at least 24 hours after the FW&MB dip before starting the Prazi treatment. FW&MB is certainly stressful, SW&MB isn't.

Oh, and just to state the obvious in case it isn't obvious...Methylene Blue stains anything it touches pretty much, meaning clothes, skin, silicone, many plastics. I always put on "fish clothes", wear gloves, use a glass beaker for dipping, and a disposable plastic knife to stir up the dip.

[Myka]

MB will affect parasites and flukes on its own accord. I usually just dip them using SW&MB when doing it prophylactically, but anytime I do decide to do a fw dip I always add MB. In your case, since there is some sort of issue I would do FW&MB, but give him at least a 24 hour rest before starting Prazi. If he looks good after 24 hours, start Prazi. If he looks bad, decide from there whether to give him a bit more time or whether time will only make things worse. Educated guess is about all we have for most diseases/parasites.