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#1
10-25-2010, 02:23 AM
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Ask Bob Fenner, then tell me I'm full of BS. BTW, I don't know Bob personally, but I guarantee that he would vouch for everything that I have posted in this discussion.
The OP in this discussion asked for input, I gave him the best advice that I know of, a diet that has been proven to have long term success with MI. As previously mentioned, I am not posting any of this in support of keeping MI in captivity. While I have a vested interest within the aquaculture industry (many here know who I am), I don't sell fish, nor do I give a flying flip what anyone here keeps, or feeds their fish. Sorry for the intrusion, carry on ....... 
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#2
10-25-2010, 02:32 AM
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Why don't you let us all know exactly what that interest is?
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#3
10-25-2010, 02:47 AM
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Better yet, other than telling the OP that he should flush his fish down the toilet, because it's doomed to certain death, why don't you offer something constructive to this discussion? I supply a number of the vendors on this forum (not live fish) so I'm not going to go round & round with you, or anyone else. Your previous (bullshit!) repsonse is a prime example of why I typically don't get involved in these types of discussions here.
I offered some very sound advice, whether the OP takes it or not is up to him. Happy fishkeeping.
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#4
10-25-2010, 05:53 AM
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There are a lot of very knowledgeable and friendly people on this forum, unlike you they contribute with sound advice, you're just plugging your product and since you aren't a sponsor you have to do it very discretely. If everyone was like you and stayed away, there would be no forum. Boy I hope you have someone else looking after client relations because you are doing a real crappy job!
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#5
10-27-2010, 10:20 AM
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I found good guide about Moorish Idol.
According to this my MI really good now. Identification: The Moorish Idol is not an Angelfish, nor a Butterflyfish, but rather a close relative of the Acanthruidae or Surgeonfish family. A one-of-a-kind Zanclidae family member, this fish is also often misidentified as a Pennant or Bannerfish, which are actually species of the Heniochus genus that are commonly referred to as the "False" or "Poor Man's" Moorish Idol. Distribution: From Hawai'i to Australia, and from the west coast of Central America westward to the coast of Africa and the Red Sea. Average Size: Generally to about 7 inches, but some adults may attain 8 or 9 inches. Habitat: Should be provided with plenty of unobstructed swimming space, as well as ample hiding places to take refuge when feeling threatened. Minimum Tank Size Suggested: 100 gallons. Characteristics and Compatibility: Typically the Moorish Idol is a moderately-peaceful fish best kept with other non-aggressive species. In regards to keeping multiple numbers of these fish together, there are many opinions. Some aquarists recommend only keeping this fish singly or in mated pairs, while others suggest they only do well if introduced into an aquarium in groups of four, six, ten, or whatever. From experience we know that large mature adults have a low tolerance for one other, and therefore keeping a single specimen or a mated pair is recommended. As far as juveniles, although this fish does seem to commune fairly well as a group, nonetheless their behavior towards one another can be "unpredictable". Sometimes a group of smaller Moorish Idols will get along just fine, while other times there may be one renegade in the group that becomes dominant, and decides to pick on all the others. Diet and Feeding: Typically difficult fish to keep, larger specimens usually do not adjust well to aquarium life. With the tendency to ignore foods offered, most often their health will decline due to slow starvation. Smaller juvenile or sub-adult specimens may more readily adapt to their surroundings, but just the same, these fish are unpredictable in their feeding behavior. For fish that refuse to eat, to survive in captivity live rock that is rich with coralline algae and sponge growth may be needed to stimulate their desire to do so. Offer finely chopped fresh or frozen shrimp, clams, squid, and other meaty fares suitable for carnivores, live mysid and brine shrimp, some vegetable matter as well as supplemental vitamin-enriched prepared foods that contain marine algae and Spirulina. Feed 2 to 3 times a day. Reef Tank Suitability: Moorish Idols will often pick at LPS corals, and certain soft coral polyps. Although this fish primarily eats coraline algae and sponge in nature, this doesn't mean that it might not pick at other types of sessile invertebrates, or maybe even motile crustaceans. Guide Buying Tips: Because these fish are typically difficult to care for in captivity, a key factor in the success of keeping a Moorish Idol is buying one that is in the best of health to start with. Here are some important things to observe and find out about this fish, before you decide to buy one. The colors should be dark, and bright, not faded or washed out. The fish's body should appear somewhat full and rounded out at the sides, the stomach area should not appear concave or sunken, and the skeletal structure of the fish should not be noticeable underneath the skin. Ask someone to feed the fish while you are at the pet store. If they will not, because they may have set feeding times, find out when this is, and then ask to be present so you can see for yourself that the fish is eating well. Find out what the pet store is feeding the fish, and match that diet. If the fins and the tail appear to be frayed or ragged looking, or are partially burnt off around the edges, and the fish's eyes are cloudy, this is most often a sign of exposure to ammonia burns, which usually stems from bad collecting and shipping practices, but can also result from poor aquarium water quality conditions and care. One of the best gauges for judging how this fish has been handled is to look at its long white streamer or pennant. If it is partially missing, or burnt off altogether, it's a sign the fish was at one time, or may be exposed to unfavorable conditions. However, if the streamer is missing, but you can see a new, small white filamentous-like growth starting to grow out of where the pennant used to be, its an excellent sign that the fish is getting the proper care, recovering and regaining a state of good health. Now if the pennant is missing, but no new growth is yet apparent, its a good idea to wait a week or two to see how the fish's condition progresses. It is not unusual for the symptoms of exposure to ammonia burn to be delayed, therefore a particular fish's condition can possibily decline as well.
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#6
10-27-2010, 02:53 PM
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From Bob Fenner's site, just a small sample of what Bob & his mods have to say with regards to feeding Moorish Idol in captivity.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/idolfaqs.htm <Yes... to sing its praises once again, Spectrum pelleted foods really seem to be a/the "trick" here... Accepted readily and completely nutritious. BobF> <<EXCELLENT! Of the few successes I have heard about concerning these fish, New Life Spectrum foods have played a key role>> <<Good signs…but likely not good enough. Just “eating” is not enough with this fish as most will still decline. I think there is something about their diet/dietary requirements that we don’t yet understand…although, there has been anecdotal proof that specimens that will feed on New Life Spectrum pellets may be fulfilling that unknown requirement>> My LFS is also trying to feed him New Life Spectrum Pellets at my request, and he is starting to show interest. <<This will probably be key to successfully keeping this fish…along with housing it in a proper environment>> <<It is not… Getting these fish to eat is not atypical…getting them to thrive/survive the long-term, is. If you don’t have it now, I very much suggest you obtain the Spectrum pelleted food (small [1mm] pellets)>> I have had two Moorish Idols for a little over a year. They have both grown in size and eat a wide variety of food mainly Spectrum Thera A pellets. <Ah, yes... have seen Pablo Tepoot's Zanclus... almost bulging at the seams on this food> <<It’s not so much a matter of getting them to eat...but more a problem of providing the “necessary” nutrition. Many a Moorish Idol has seemed to be feeding well only to die from apparent malnutrition, or secondary disease/infection brought on by malnutrition. But on the bright side, there appears to be anecdotal proof that the pelleted foods from New Life Spectrum can/do provide the necessary nutritional requirements for these (and many/most other) fishes. If you choose to persist in your pursuit of these fishes I highly recommend you give the Spectrum foods a try>> And medhatreefguy, here's a little reality check for you. I've been a member here for 5 years, and while I have responded to a few discussions involving diet, or fish nutrition in general, I haven't exactly been running around *plugging* products, nor was I shooting down (as you put it) other products. The fact of the matter is I don't know of any other diet that has kept MI's alive & thriving long term in captivity outside of NLS. If you or anyone else does, then by all means add your 2 cents worth, I'm all ears. You may not consider my advice sound, or Bob Fenner's, or any of his mods. That's fine by me, but so far I don't see anyone else offering Tony any input as to what to feed his fish to keep it healthy long term. Bob not only agrees with me, he respects my experience & knowledge on this subject enough to have asked me in the past to join his team of advisors, to which I declined as in that case I did feel that it would be considered by some to be a conflict of interest. Kind of a dumb move for someone who's only interest is to plug his product, don't you think?  This happens to be a subject that I'm very well versed in, and I am as passionate about this hobby as you or anyone else on this forum. Over the years I've swapped spit with the best of them, including manufacturers, marine biologists, zoologists, DVM's, research scientists that specialize in this field, and with enough letters after their name to sink a ship. I'm 50+ yrs of age, and have been closely involved in the science of animal nutrition for over half of my life. Perhaps in the future don't be so quick to judge every book by its cover, when you crack that book open you just might actually learn something.
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#7
10-27-2010, 03:07 PM
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Wow, interesting thread!
Firstly, all stores, LFS or sellers other than the normal reefer hobbyist should fully reveal themselves. Hiding for the sake of not being in trouble with the forum mods for breaking rules or not paying the sponsor fee's. Well come on now, follow the rules, or go away. Anybody here that may fall into this category, smarten up! I think we are off topic here. The thread poster wanted info on Moorish Idols and feeding. Who cares about Bob Fenner, yes I have heard of him, but come on, he isn't GOD!!! Respect needs to go both ways here folks, treat how you want to be treated.
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 Setup: 180G DT, 105G Refuge (approx. 300lbs LR, 150lbs Aragonite) Hardware: Super Reef Octopus SSS-3000, Tunze ATO, Mag 18 return, 2x MP40W, 2X Koralia 4's Wavemaker Lighting: 5ft Hamilton Belize Sun (2x250W MH, 2X80W T5HO) Type of Aquarium: mixed reef (SPS & LPS) with fish Dosing: Mg, Ca, Alk
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#8
10-27-2010, 03:39 PM
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[/quote]Your previous (bullshit!) repsonse is a prime example of why I typically don't get involved in these types of discussions here[/quote] When you described you experience and wealth of knowledge I had a look at your posts to hopefully find a sample of this and all I found was New Life Spectrum. Someone such as yourself could certainly contribute a great deal to this forum and especially considering you are in the field of sales it would do nothing but help your business. Everyone here helps everyone out, I have met quite a few of the members in person and they have to be the best bunch of people out there, if we all had your attitude none of this would exist. If you are as great as you claim and Bob Fenner really wants you, then you could certainly be a guru on this forum, why not share that with the people right out your back door for the sake of the hobby.
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