BioPellets with Vodka Dosing - Your Thoughts

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by lobsterboy

your not dosing Zeostart ?

Nope not anymore.

I have slept on it and decided to keep going with how it is setup already, that is with the Zeolites still running and the dosing.

My reasoning is that before I put the Zeolites back in things were very good, but can say that I had a couple patches of very fine green algae on couple areas of glass that I don't clean. Since adding the zeolites back in, about 2 weeks after, these are now 100% gone, and the urchins and snails have cleaned the glass bare. I am very happy about that. So I decided this morning to leave as is, but with the extra 1L of Pellets I just added, and I even slowed down the flow more on the pellets. Results are great, now lets see if I can get perfect. HEHE.

[kien]

Wow how many liters of pellets are you running in total now?

It almost seems to me like both methods are going to compete with one another for nutrients, thus reducing the full potential of both? I read up in this last night on the zeovit forum and even within the "I'm trying pellets with zeo" thread there doesn't seem to be too many people doing it. For those that are experimenting it doesn't seem like too many have chimed in with results.

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by kien

Wow how many liters of pellets are you running in total now?

It almost seems to me like both methods are going to compete with one another for nutrients, thus reducing the full potential of both? I read up in this last night on the zeovit forum and even within the "I'm trying pellets with zeo" thread there doesn't seem to be too many people doing it. For those that are experimenting it doesn't seem like too many have chimed in with results.

You really want to know, YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW!!!!

Well, I have about 5L of pellets running, maybe 6L. The nice thing about this product, as stated, you can`t overdose like with Vodka, sugar or vinegar. The reason for this is the pellets don`t get used unless the bacteria needs/wants them and as long as the nitrates/phospates is present for them to consume. And you are correct, again not much in the way of test results out there, isn't this hobby fun!

In regards to them competing with the Zeolites, I don't know. The reason for my decision to keep it going the same, is because I haven't seen any detramental things happen, but actual the reverse, more good things. Well is that because of the Zeolites? I don't really know, it could be just a coincadense.

From what I understand, Zeolites and Pellets nurish different strains of bacteria. So will they compete, being different maybe not. Also one of the benefits of the pellets is the bacteria growth is restricted to within the reactor, they do not grow any further on live rock or other surfaces outside the reactor itself. I don't believe Zeolites are the same. Again will they compete? I don't think so, but again I could be 100% wrong here.

I think what we need is a Guru here to state why I should remove the Zeolites and explain why. I will remove them based on a reasonable explanation, but as of this morning I am keeping them in.

Please Guru's pipe in here, I want to know... Like many others.

[Delphinus]

I removed mine and basically regretted it. It took the tank many months to recover properly even though I disbanded it gradually.

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

I removed mine and basically regretted it. It took the tank many months to recover properly even though I disbanded it gradually.

Really, it didn't do well, removing the Zeolites?

As you know, I also removed mine, but not gradually. I just turned off and took out, I didn't really see anything bad though.

Are you putting the zeolites back in? also with Pellets? That is what I am doing, and as stated above, I run alot of pellets. HEHE.

[Delphinus]

Yeah there was definitely a reaction in the tank after the zeolites were taken out. Film algae over the glass like crazy, nitrates and phosphates crept up very quickly. I had to tailor back the feedings quite a bit for the tank to be able to adjust.

I was sort of planning on doing both zeo and pellets with the new tank but mostly on account that I seem to have all the stuff and might as well use it, or lose it. I'm choosing "use" for the time being but will see where it takes me down the road.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

I just think my bioload is too large maybe.

Just looking at your signature...you have 350 lbs of live rock in a 180 gallon tank? That makes me wonder if you removed some rock for better circulation you may be able to easily reduce your nutrients that way. 350 lbs of live rock is a lot of rock to be in the way of the powerheads.

Just a thought...sometimes more chemicals or more dosing isn't the answer, and is a battle you won't win.

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by Myka

Just looking at your signature...you have 350 lbs of live rock in a 180 gallon tank? That makes me wonder if you removed some rock for better circulation you may be able to easily reduce your nutrients that way. 350 lbs of live rock is a lot of rock to be in the way of the powerheads.

Just a thought...sometimes more chemicals or more dosing isn't the answer, and is a battle you won't win.

Good Point, but flow is pretty good. Every once in a while I will point the powerheads behind the rock, to see if anything (crud, deitris) comes out and very little does. Also my rock is well spaced out, not just piled. I have lots of caves and holes. Also, I like the landscaping... I don't have that much rock compared to others I have seen, and still have room. Lastly, if you look into the holes, back areas, you can see stringy spongy moving from the current, so I don't think that is the problem.

I am not having any algae issues whatsoever. Nothing bad like that, just trying to get SPS to color up better. And as you can see with my parameters, nothing is out of line.

Any other thoughts?

[Willito]

Just a few thoughts:
-I don't think you have a high bio load, so don't over compensate the filtration
-There is too much rocks in the tank, unless you like that sort of presentation
-You don't need that much amount of pellets to achieve the same result
-bio pellets are good at reducing nitrate and phosphate, but it won't automatically enhance coral colors. Low nitrate/phoshate is only a small part of a big equation in achieving vivid colors.
-try the opposite, feed your livestock more and leave the water a little "dirtier", maybe your water is too "clean"

[Myka]

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

I am not having any algae issues whatsoever. Nothing bad like that, just trying to get SPS to color up better. And as you can see with my parameters, nothing is out of line.

Any other thoughts?

What if you blow the powerheads at the rock? Any detritus come flying off there?

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

Water=1.025
Water Temp=80'C, this doesn't fluctuate that much
PH=8.3
ALK=7-8, based on Zeo... When I had removed the zeolites I raised it to 10-11, but now back down to 8ish
Ca=400
Mg=1350
K=400
Nitrite=0.02
Ammonia=0.15-0.2
Nitrate - I don't know, need to get another kit.

Why do you have ammonia and nitrite? What test kits do you use for each test?

I notice you don't have readings for nitrate or phosphate. Provided the "big three" (and K imo) are in check, I have found that NO3 and PO4 are very good at browning out SPS. I find the Salifert kit for nitrate is sufficient and keeping nitrate below 5 ppm is essential for good SPS coloration although I find the best coloration when nitrate is undetectable with a Salifert kit. I use a Merck high sensitivity kit for phosphate as I find anything greater than 0.15 ppm in the water will cause SPS colors to diminish. You need a high sensitivity kit to read these low levels.

Excuse me, but I don't have to read the entire thread. Are you using any sort of phosphate absorbing media? I use GFO on any SPS tanks (and at different times in non-SPS tanks). I really find it makes a huge difference in SPS coloration whether phosphate is problematic or not. Lots of GFO, and little carbon imo. I find huge amounts of carbon will reduce polyp extension on SPS. I use carbon intermittently because of this (just a day or two per week). Some people have mixed reefs with chemically aggressive corals where limited carbon use isn't possible.

Which brings up another point. Many corals are chemically aggressive; like leathers, GSP, Zoas, and Palys. The presence of these corals in an SPS system can and will diminish SPS coloration, polyp extension, and growth. Using carbon will help to absorb many chemicals released by corals, but that's a catch 22 as described above. Keeping away from some of the worst chemical fighters is a good plan, or remove them entirely.

Personally, I would ditch the Biopellets (I'm not sold on their claims). I would run GFO in a reactor. Run carbon passively and intermittently if possible. Play around with the use of Zeolites instead of Biopellets, vodka, or any other "raw" carbon dosing. I'm a stickler for reef designed products. I find the use of "raw" chemicals (calcium, sodium bicarbonate, vodka, etc) to be far inferior to reef designed products. I'm a huge fan of balling salts, which are essentially super pure raw chemicals designed for reefs with some interesting chemical engineering and secret ingredients.

HTH.