Well it happened again.....and yet again*updated*

[whatcaneyedo]

"Palytoxin acts by changing the electrical properties of the Na-K pump and causes depolarization in heart, skeletal and smooth muscle cells and nerves resulting in paralysis and eventually death (Seyama, 1991). Gliebs et al. (1995) found this toxic substance in many of the Caribbean species of Zoanthus and Palythoa but the levels were highly variable and did not appear to correlate with their reproductive cycle or with the amount of zooxanthellae." The Reef Aquarium Vol 2

[Murminator]

Well a little good news all fish accounted for and alive except a yellow tang that was heathy and fine when the lights went out. tank water is still pretty white skimmer going wild empty the cup about every 9-12 hrs. Still smells like death in the house.

Set up a quick 33G today moved the few remaining corals and a couple rocks and 1 clown that that kept swimming in front of the return pump nozzle I assume trying to get cleaner water. File fish, coral beauty, mandarin, and 3 clowns all ok crusing around and eating so right now I will leave them all. Next saturday is the big day I am kicking everyone out and going to rip down the tank for a complete rebuild dump the sand and kill off the rock. It will get rebuilt into a FO tank the wife always liked the non reef safe fish whenever we go to the LFS. Then I think I will build another nano I had good luck with nano's all SPS except for some acans and plates for the sand

Thanks for everyones encouraging words on this but right now I think it's the best way rather than playing russian roulette trying to find the problem.

These are the zoas I'm talking about the heads are the size of a dime and they stretch real long even 6" under MH lights and a produce alot of slime, a fist size rock of them will 1/2 fill a sandwich bag of slime ....and they are zoas not paly's they all grow on a interconnected mat not individual like palys....I seen them sometime stay real short and almost get a silver/white tinge to them

[Murminator]

Thanks to cranky when wet for the link lots of info here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidcompfaqs.htm
Here is what happend to another guy

Killing Palys. Zoanthid control, human toxicity f's– 12/04/09
Dear Crew,
<Glenn>
I have a tank being over run by brown polyps. I believe people here call them Texas Trash Palys. At first it looked nice to have a large mat of these but this is getting ridiculous. They were growing on all the rock, sand and back wall. Now I have reason to believe they are making me ill.
<No bueno!>
8 weeks ago, I did a lot of work on my tank, mainly removing algae and removing Palys growing on the sandbed. So my hands were in the water. I was wearing gloves, but they only come up above my wrists. I don't remember having any cuts. That night, I had trouble sleeping due to chills. I got up and went into the bathroom and blacked out. Busted my head open and bruised my ribs in the process. Went to the hospital but had no fever. My lower BP# was initially really low. Recovered an moved on.
A few weeks ago, I discovered a leak in my sump. So I broke down my tank and put all the live rock, including Palys in totes. That night, I had chills again and felt dizzy when I stood up. This time I sat down and did not black out. I recovered later in the day. I got a new DT and setup the new tank and sump. Put the LR and Palys back in. The water smelled terrible. All my Ricordea were dead but the Palys were alive. The can with the fish had a few rocks with Palys. Two fish were dead and the others were near death. That night I got the chills again. My remaining fish were dead by morning.
<Bad, bad and worse>
I'm thinking all of this is from the Palys.
<Could be>
Even if their not the cause, I want to get rid of them anyway. They are reduced in number, but I'm sure they'll be back. My tank completed a cycle and I've started adding some hermits and a brittle star to clean up anything left decaying in there. I as hoping to begin restocking fish this weekend. How can I kill the Paly's and not have another cycle of the tank?
<Remove all rock with them, the Zoanthids on them... Bleach... for a day... Rinse, let the "old" rock air dry... for a few days... Place back in the system with some new atop to reseed with other forms of life>
Not to mention avoid taking the rock out of the tank and manually removing them?
<This is what is necessary... Either that or nuking/bleaching all in place.
Yes, I am serious. You are by far not the first or worst to be malaffected by these Sea Mats... Do take care. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Glenn

[DisneyCoralReef]

Unreal! glad that guy turned out ok in the end. A great lesson learned on my end. Wouldn't have known any of this was possible without this thread Great info.

[Cranky When Wet]

Originally Posted by Murminator

Thanks to cranky when wet for the link lots of info here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidcompfaqs.htm
Here is what happend to another guy

You're very welcome Murray >:-) WetWebMedia.com is practically my bible when it comes to all things watery..... It's managed by people who are well educated and some who are even notorious (LOL) in Marine Biology.

After all was discovered with your tank, I think your initial symptoms pointed to palytoxin. Finding black/water/sand is a secondary set of values that may lead to another analysis... unfortunately, my background is not such that I can even surmise what happened.

I am very glad things are working out for you regardless >:-) You may find it amusing but; I'm slowly removing my relatively shallow sand beds and relying almost entirely on liverock as biological filter now. Been enjoying how much cleaner the tanks are and how easy it is to manage because I can discount copious factors the old sand beds gave birth to LOL!

Cheers from Cowtown!

Bunny
that Cranky blonde >:-)

[Cranky When Wet]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

"Palytoxin acts by changing the electrical properties of the Na-K pump and causes depolarization in heart, skeletal and smooth muscle cells and nerves resulting in paralysis and eventually death (Seyama, 1991). Gliebs et al. (1995) found this toxic substance in many of the Caribbean species of Zoanthus and Palythoa but the levels were highly variable and did not appear to correlate with their reproductive cycle or with the amount of zooxanthellae." The Reef Aquarium Vol 2

HUGE THANKS to whatcaneyedo for finding the details!!!! I for one, would not be arguing with Sprung or Fenner.

I love zoa's and paly's as much as many people and keep many colonies of them.

All I have been saying is that the potential for real danger is there. You may feel nothing, or you may feel itchy, or you can get rather dead....

Having lived through terrifying bouts of heart palpitations; shortness of breath; and chills: I simply will not risk grabbing "ungloved" a rock full of slimey paly's, or Zoa's, again. I've no problem getting my hands wet feeding my Acans, Blastos, and Scolymia...but, I've learned where and when to draw the line. Of course, one never knows what other microbe may not like me LOL.

This post is not about scaring people out of keeping Zoa's. It is all about sharing knowledge in the hope people become informed.

Bunny
aka that Cranky Blonde