Vertex Illumina

[Wanderer]

#44
08-31-2010, 05:58 PM
TheDogFather
Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ajax, Ontario
Posts: 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron99
Any updates or more then and now photos? Personally, I'm not super impressed with the PAR readings you showed so far. For optimal growth of SPS you want between 400 and 500 PAR. My DIY LED array achieves that in the middle level of the tank (10 inches down my 20 inch deep 75 gallon) at less then full power with the array 6 inches above the water. If I turn it all the way up and lower to 3 to 4 inches above the water I get way more. I get well over 250 PAr at the sand bed 18 or 19 inches below the water surface.

Your clam may do alright but as I understand it clams need 250 to 300 PAR (I may be wrong on that but it's the number I recall).




That's nice Ron99 but this is not a contest and what makes you think you need between 400-500 PAR to grow stony corals well? My SPS and clams say otherwise.

I'm not going to get into a PAR contest with your DIY fixture, I get excellent growth (at 50% power I might add) and my clams are growing very well. The 48" Vertex Illumina LED comes very close in PAR output to my previous fixture, ATI PowerModule with 8x54W T5's and that fixture is no slouch.

I'm guessing your DIY uses optics to achieve higher PAR values but at the cost of spread so you'll have to hang it high to get decent coverage thereby negating all that extra PAR...

-TDF

"Stoney corals appear to photosaturate between 400 and 500 PAR so having 700 or 1000 PAR is probably pointless other than for bragging rights. I doubt it will do the corals much good." -Ron99




could not have said it better myself

[Ron99]

What are you trying to get at? You conveniently do not post my well reasoned and informed response to the above post you quoted. Looks like you are trying to make this some form of personal attack against me instead of discussing the merits of the light itself. Go back and read my response to the above in that thread.

Putting on my Machiavellian hat I would say that as a newbie with very few posts and with your apparent blind support of this fixture that you work for Vertex? If you want to discuss the pros and cons of the technology in a civil and reasonable fashion I'm all for it but you are derailing this thread by trying to make me look bad in some way, taking posts from other threads out of context and not posting any information of substance.

I would suggest you contribute in a positive fashion or at least in a constructive debate as I am trying to do or refrain from posting please as this is not doing the OP or the board any good.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Ron99

What are you trying to get at? You conveniently do not post my well reasoned and informed response to the above post you quoted. Looks like you are trying to make this some form of personal attack against me instead of discussing the merits of the light itself. Go back and read my response to the above in that thread.

Putting on my Machiavellian hat I would say that as a newbie with very few posts and with your apparent blind support of this fixture that you work for Vertex? If you want to discuss the pros and cons of the technology in a civil and reasonable fashion I'm all for it but you are derailing this thread by trying to make me look bad in some way, taking posts from other threads out of context and not posting any information of substance.

I would suggest you contribute in a positive fashion or at least in a constructive debate as I am trying to do or refrain from posting please as this is not doing the OP or the board any good.

Sorry Ron, I didn't mean to come out guns blazing! I just have been lucky enough to play with an Illumina and was really impressed! it's hard to listen to someone bash a well put together product. So take off your tinfoil hat there buddy lol.

As for me being a newbie, I had an account here years ago, but it fell into disuse as I was abroad for over 5 years working in the industry (for some pictures, just look at my submissions for the picture of the month contest) so I'm back, and toying with the idea of another, bigger reef tank and I plan on being a contributing member here as best I can.

[bhazard1]

I love my fixture. Had to deal with Albert at proline on a couple warranty issues (bummed out meanwell driver, vertex skimmer impeller) and I'm more than happy with their customer service! I figure over the 7-10 years the fixture should last I'll have recouped most of the cost of the fixture back due to no bulb replacements t5 and MH, and lower electrical consumption, plus now I don't "need" a chiller.

[BlueTang<3]

done deal. bought and shipping in am.

all goes well it's here friday.

Got a 24' Coming

[Wanderer]

congrats!!!!

You must be VERY excited

[Coleus]

Really want the light but at $4200 for 72 inch. Too much for me! :-(

[StirCrazy]

thatnks, I got a good laugh out of this thread, goes from asking for opinions, some are given then turns to personal attack cuz people didn't agree with the opinion given.

it is natural for people to defend there purchases and remember no mater what we buy there will always be some one who has something better or some one who doesn't like if for other reasons..

I have been playing with LEDs over tanks for about 8 years now, granted mostly for lighting tanks with out corals or for moonlight or effect purposes using old 5mm LEDs . now in the last year I have gotten back into it and learned a ton more as over the last 5 years there have been significant advances in LEDs and ways of controling them.

Ron has very valid points, and from personal experiance with PAR readings and SPS growth I would not set up another SPS tank unless I can obtain about 300 PAR on the bottom of the tank, with between 500 to 700 PAR towards the top.

my reasoning for this is as follows. 10 years ago there was no info on lighting and I started off with VHO's and overdriven NO's and a LUX meter, then went to PCs and bought a PAR meter. SPS grew, and yes they will grow under NO's if set up properly, but very slowly and will mostly be brown.

then I switched to a VHO/PC system and got a bit more growth and a tiny bit of color. soon I added a 175 watt MH and again more growth and more color. after about 4 months of reading boaring articles on light and growth, I designed my own system with 250 watt MH, HQI ballasts, and home made reflectors, this jumped my PAR up to about 800 just below the surface and about 350 at the bottom of a 24" tank. coral growth took off to the point where I contenplated lowering the light levels, but didn't.. the result was colors like I had never experianced, One brown Acro I was given, and I named "butt ugly" turned into a stunning deep purple and was my faviorate coral. my millies were growing over a CM/month in dia, and soon space was becomming an issue. All water peramiters and feeding remained the same through out so the only varable was the light.

I do not agree with people saying over 1000PAR will inhibit growth for one simple reason, a coral reef in the sun gets way more than that for at least 6 hours of the day I do agree that they will use so much light then stop for the day, I concluded this as I was running my MH for 6 hours a day then upped it to 8 and coral growth increased, then I upped it to 10 and another increase, but at 12 hours there was no increase over 10 hours so I went back to 10 hours.

now as for the vertex fixture, ya they are neat, good quality LEDs, and a tone of features for the price, but they are designed to be "cool" looking and small. because of the way the did there thermal managment there is a trade of being a single strip of LEDs. so what you get as was stated is a row of light, now by not using optics this will alow the spread to light the whole tank but it will be most intense with in about 25 degrees of the verticle axis. what I would liek to see is ass on moduals to turn it into 3 strips that are spaced out so say another light strip with a heat sink that extens on only one side that can be attached to the edge of the main heat sink. so you add one on each side and overall PAR will be more even and increased.

If you have the ability you can always build a better fixture than you can buy preformance wise, but making it pretty takes conciderable skill and money, so if it is the look your after and willing to trade a bit on preformance then the vertex is a very good option especialy when the price is brought in. if your fixture is going to be hidden and you have the skills to solder, tap, ect.. then building a setup for the same money will give you better overall power, but you trade on looks..

so it is a personal choice and that always means that some one will be defending there choice, but lets try to keep it with out sarcasm and personal attacks, just say why you made your choice and don't let others opinions get to you.

Steve

[Skimmerking]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

#44
08-31-2010, 05:58 PM
TheDogFather
Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ajax, Ontario
Posts: 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron99
Any updates or more then and now photos? Personally, I'm not super impressed with the PAR readings you showed so far. For optimal growth of SPS you want between 400 and 500 PAR. My DIY LED array achieves that in the middle level of the tank (10 inches down my 20 inch deep 75 gallon) at less then full power with the array 6 inches above the water. If I turn it all the way up and lower to 3 to 4 inches above the water I get way more. I get well over 250 PAr at the sand bed 18 or 19 inches below the water surface.

Your clam may do alright but as I understand it clams need 250 to 300 PAR (I may be wrong on that but it's the number I recall).




That's nice Ron99 but this is not a contest and what makes you think you need between 400-500 PAR to grow stony corals well? My SPS and clams say otherwise.

I'm not going to get into a PAR contest with your DIY fixture, I get excellent growth (at 50% power I might add) and my clams are growing very well. The 48" Vertex Illumina LED comes very close in PAR output to my previous fixture, ATI PowerModule with 8x54W T5's and that fixture is no slouch.

I'm guessing your DIY uses optics to achieve higher PAR values but at the cost of spread so you'll have to hang it high to get decent coverage thereby negating all that extra PAR...

-TDF

"Stoney corals appear to photosaturate between 400 and 500 PAR so having 700 or 1000 PAR is probably pointless other than for bragging rights. I doubt it will do the corals much good." -Ron99




could not have said it better myself

Hey buds have a little respect for others on this board you can't come on here and start flapping at people .
Its noce that you have a light fro, Vertex. great ,HOWEVER some one gave you an OPININ OF theirs you can't take that away. If I tell you that your light sucks well fire your input back. But If I tell you that In my opinion that your light suck and give you a example based on another project well great leave it at that .

Just remember that people are allow to think what they want. and if they think that you are an idiot Well that is them thinking out loud!!!!!!.

However im not saying that Im just thinking it. at the end of the day people will have different opinions on lights brand names. So we will always have a debate on lights and other equipment .

[BlueTang<3]

Thanks Ron i have been on the fence between vertex and aqua illuminations for some time. The finish and controller and software on the vertex is mind blowing vs what comes with the aqua illumination for now. The aqua illumination says on reef central that there are a few issues with poor unsealed connectors on the light and a little sketchy on warranty. But seeing the vertex is not in the states who knows what its flaws are. It is interesting the differences in the lights optics no optics cree vs rebel diodes. I would almost be tempted to try 2 12" and compare them side by side but ...I am big on looks in a fixture and i like the vertex more but thats just looks. I have the other big ones Ati powermodule t5's Geiseman metal halides so i would like to try leds. It is some interesting pros and cons for optics vs no optics. One thing that i am worried about it the shadows that i have seen on reef central from lights with optics. An y line in that article “On shallower tanks, I’m a proponent of using straight LEDs without secondary optics,” he states. “I’ve found that achieving a sufficient amount of light for high-light corals is possible, there will be no flashlight effect, no spotting, and more uniformly colored shadows.” Being my rag tank is only 10" deep this is something that finds me leaning towards the Vertex. I want to thank you for taking the time to educate us on the different versions on leds i find it to be interesting. One this that worries me tho is the increase in technology so quick in this hobby ill buy a led and something new and better will come out.