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#1
10-04-2010, 06:03 PM
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http://reefbuilders.com/2010/01/27/l...ics-explained/ I'll quote the important bit of it: "But just because an LED is rated at 120 degrees, it doesn’t mean you get the lighting punch of the LED across the entire spectrum. Just like any other point of light source, it’s going to be stronger the closer you travel to the center. Along the central axis the LED emits 100 percent of its relative luminous intensity and will lose intensity the farther you move away from the central axis. For simplicity’s sake, if a 100 lumen will produce 100 lumens of light at the center and a measurement taken 25 degrees from its central axis, the output of the LED will appear to drop to only 80 lumens. Continuing on the path away from the center axis a measurement taken 45 degrees off axis will yield only 40 lumens, and so on, until at 60 degrees, only 10 lumens or so are emitted." Also, to add secondary optics they would have to completely redesign the fixture as the emitters would have to be spread out over the entire face of the fixture rather then clustered or you just compound the problem and you would have even higher intensity down the middle and even more drop off front to back. Simply adding secondary optics to this design is not the solution, it would compound the problem. I guess I just don't see it as a "smart" design. It could have used fewer LEDs, reducing the cost, being more energy efficient and likely had higher performance to boot. It also has nothing to do with Mercedes vs. Kia. I am sure it is a well built unit and it does have some nice features but performance wise I can't justify the price. Would you buy a Mercedes that drove and performed no better then a Kia? I know I wouldn't. I would want a better feel, better acceleration, handling, ride, reliability, build quality etc. to justify the price premium. Quote:
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#3
10-04-2010, 08:06 PM
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Ahh, a well reasoned and argued response. Great to see
 I was planning a product but given time constraints right now the project is on hold for the moment. In any case, I don't hate the fixture, I just question the cost vs. performance equation. The whole point of these forums and this type of thread is to discuss the pros and cons of the equipment. The OP asked for feeback or opinions and I gave mine. In any case, I've put in my 2 cents backed by my own experience and research. If you've built and tested LED arrays or tested the Vertex fixture yourself then I'll be happy to accept your results too. I will also happily test a Vertex fixture in a more controlled fashion if somebody has one handy. In any case, I'll stop it here for now.
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#4
10-04-2010, 08:28 PM
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#44
08-31-2010, 05:58 PM TheDogFather Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ajax, Ontario Posts: 28 Quote: Originally Posted by Ron99 Any updates or more then and now photos? Personally, I'm not super impressed with the PAR readings you showed so far. For optimal growth of SPS you want between 400 and 500 PAR. My DIY LED array achieves that in the middle level of the tank (10 inches down my 20 inch deep 75 gallon) at less then full power with the array 6 inches above the water. If I turn it all the way up and lower to 3 to 4 inches above the water I get way more. I get well over 250 PAr at the sand bed 18 or 19 inches below the water surface. Your clam may do alright but as I understand it clams need 250 to 300 PAR (I may be wrong on that but it's the number I recall). That's nice Ron99 but this is not a contest and what makes you think you need between 400-500 PAR to grow stony corals well? My SPS and clams say otherwise. I'm not going to get into a PAR contest with your DIY fixture, I get excellent growth (at 50% power I might add) and my clams are growing very well. The 48" Vertex Illumina LED comes very close in PAR output to my previous fixture, ATI PowerModule with 8x54W T5's and that fixture is no slouch. I'm guessing your DIY uses optics to achieve higher PAR values but at the cost of spread so you'll have to hang it high to get decent coverage thereby negating all that extra PAR... -TDF "Stoney corals appear to photosaturate between 400 and 500 PAR so having 700 or 1000 PAR is probably pointless other than for bragging rights. I doubt it will do the corals much good." -Ron99 could not have said it better myself
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#5
10-04-2010, 09:32 PM
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What are you trying to get at? You conveniently do not post my well reasoned and informed response to the above post you quoted. Looks like you are trying to make this some form of personal attack against me instead of discussing the merits of the light itself. Go back and read my response to the above in that thread.
Putting on my Machiavellian hat I would say that as a newbie with very few posts and with your apparent blind support of this fixture that you work for Vertex? If you want to discuss the pros and cons of the technology in a civil and reasonable fashion I'm all for it but you are derailing this thread by trying to make me look bad in some way, taking posts from other threads out of context and not posting any information of substance. I would suggest you contribute in a positive fashion or at least in a constructive debate as I am trying to do or refrain from posting please as this is not doing the OP or the board any good.
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#6
10-05-2010, 04:51 PM
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As for me being a newbie, I had an account here years ago, but it fell into disuse as I was abroad for over 5 years working in the industry (for some pictures, just look at my submissions for the picture of the month contest) so I'm back, and toying with the idea of another, bigger reef tank  and I plan on being a contributing member here as best I can.
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#7
10-06-2010, 07:00 AM
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I love my fixture. Had to deal with Albert at proline on a couple warranty issues (bummed out meanwell driver, vertex skimmer impeller) and I'm more than happy with their customer service! I figure over the 7-10 years the fixture should last I'll have recouped most of the cost of the fixture back due to no bulb replacements t5 and MH, and lower electrical consumption, plus now I don't "need" a chiller.
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#8
10-05-2010, 12:11 AM
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Its noce that you have a light fro, Vertex. great ,HOWEVER some one gave you an OPININ OF theirs you can't take that away. If I tell you that your light sucks well fire your input back. But If I tell you that In my opinion that your light suck and give you a example based on another project well great leave it at that . Just remember that people are allow to think what they want. and if they think that you are an idiot Well that is them thinking out loud!!!!!!. However im not saying that Im just thinking it. at the end of the day people will have different opinions on lights brand names. So we will always have a debate on lights and other equipment .
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180 starfire front, LPS, millipora Doesn't matter how much you have been reading until you take the plunge. You don't know as much as you think.
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#9
10-05-2010, 12:21 AM
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Thanks Ron i have been on the fence between vertex and aqua illuminations for some time. The finish and controller and software on the vertex is mind blowing vs what comes with the aqua illumination for now. The aqua illumination says on reef central that there are a few issues with poor unsealed connectors on the light and a little sketchy on warranty. But seeing the vertex is not in the states who knows what its flaws are. It is interesting the differences in the lights optics no optics cree vs rebel diodes. I would almost be tempted to try 2 12" and compare them side by side but ...I am big on looks in a fixture and i like the vertex more but thats just looks. I have the other big ones Ati powermodule t5's Geiseman metal halides so i would like to try leds. It is some interesting pros and cons for optics vs no optics. One thing that i am worried about it the shadows that i have seen on reef central from lights with optics. An y line in that article “On shallower tanks, I’m a proponent of using straight LEDs without secondary optics,” he states. “I’ve found that achieving a sufficient amount of light for high-light corals is possible, there will be no flashlight effect, no spotting, and more uniformly colored shadows.” Being my rag tank is only 10" deep this is something that finds me leaning towards the Vertex. I want to thank you for taking the time to educate us on the different versions on leds i find it to be interesting. One this that worries me tho is the increase in technology so quick in this hobby ill buy a led and something new and better will come out.
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360 gallon sps reef, 180 gal sump, bubble king supermarine 300, 4xmp40Wes, 2 x 6215 tunze waveboxes, 4 ghl mitras 360 Reef Tank
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#10
10-05-2010, 02:28 AM
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Hi,
Thought I'd chime in on this one: The Vertex Illumina was designed from the ground-up as an open platform which will offer seamless integration into the soon-to-be-released Vertex Cerebra network. This network, the heart of which will be the Cerebra, will take the fundamentals of reef/aquarium equipment (eg. pumps, lighting, dosers, etc) and connect them all into one user-friendly, ever expanding network. This is something that no other lighting unit can offer. What exactly is all this 'fluff' you might ask? Well, off the top of my head, these are some of the developments currently under way: - Fully synchronized tidal/photo cycles, as close as you will ever get to replicating the oceanic seasons in your living room. Moon cycles that run in tandem with surge cycles and beyond. - Real-time weather simulation, not lighting, but current too. Imagine, with the advances in dosing pump and refrigeration technology, can you imagine increasing the amount of liquid food additives during a storm surge? - Fully customizable color channel control to parallel the seasonal spectral shifts (this will become even more powerful with the release of the auxiliary modules, including RGB/UV-Cyan, etc). These are features are very real and innovative options for the ultimate simulations. Pending some upcoming beta testing, they should be available nearing the end of this year/beginning of 2011. As it stands, the Illumina has undergone nearly three years of R&D. There are no cheap parts or labour put into the product. The entire assembly was designed and assembled with the "buy it once, never look back" frame of mind and I have not had a single issue with any of the hundreds of fixtures that I have sold over the past few months. Every unit, every LED pad is hand tested. Regarding the performance - the document leaked earlier this year was part of a much larger article which contains all the PAR and spectral data. This article is awaiting final drafts and editing prior to publishing. @ Ron99 If someone from Vertex were to post here regarding this unit, you would know it (Hi). Personally, I cannot engage into the debate of spectral efficacy as it is not a field of research to which I have applied myself. However, I am confident that, with the spectral testing being done and the impending publishing of the article being just around the corner, the Vertex Illumina will easily stand apart from the crowd in its ability both exceed the expectations and impress with its array of exclusive features. I will refrain from making an analogy between this and the rather obvious car market. I think we're all a little more intelligent than that. I will however state that, having seen all the offerings from every manufacturer out there, this is by far the most unique and exclusive illumination offering from any manufacturer. There is no other lighting product out there as polished or feature-rich as the Illumina and this gap will only become larger as the Cerebra and auxiliary modules are released. @ BlueTang<3 Check out TheDogFather's thread on RC for a more users. I cannot think of a single product I have dealt with over my entire experience within this industry that has left so many people feeling as PROUD of their investment as the Illumina. A particular example stands out in my head; one of the Canadian end-users actually called my office to tell me about how many different lighting products he had used, tested/experimented with over the years and wanted to thank me because he was ‘finally done with buying lights for his fish tank’. We’re not talking hodgepodge Chinese junk either – Aquatics, Geissman, Hamilton, Sunlight Supply, ATI, this guy probably spent more on lights in the past decade than I have spent on my car. To hear this statement from someone who was in that position of knowledge and authority has left me feeling brazenly confident about the capabilities of the Illumina. Regarding the rapid 'leap frogging' that LED manufacturers seem to be doing with each other, the Illumina will be fully upgradable. The shell/haul of the light is completely modular and, should LED technology happen to surge forward in efficiency, easily be expanded to the current offerings and beyond. I should mention that all of this can be done without any prior experience or knowledge. No soldering, disassembly or internal parts replacement. Each pad is completely modular and can be removed by hand without the need for any tools. Anyway, I’m getting off the soapbox now and will recede back into ‘lurker’ mode. Feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions regarding this or any other Vertex products.
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This and that.
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