Gfci ......

[RR37]

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

Well we are all entitled to our opinions. So I will respect yours... but what happened to me, tells me a different story, before I had the GFI. Then please explain all the burnt/melted plastic and black burnt stuff on my power bar after my incident (this would indicate heat in my opinion). I would like to know your explanation. I don't claim to be an electrician.


So in regards to false sense of security, I think it is just an extra measure, it can't hurt. In the grande scheme of things, it is a small investment for this "small sense of security".

I have 2 of them and glad I do.

I think you missed the point,

GFI = GOOD

AFCI or FUSE = GOOD

Using both = DOUBLE GOOD

Not knocking a GFCI I think the are a necessity. Anyone not having one should think about getting one. While you are doing the GFI, look into fusing your system somehow. Claiming they will prevent fire is a false sense of security, A GFI will prevent unwanted shock and electrocution, seeing as that is all they were designed to do. ( In a situation where a fault in grounding is present )

There are any number of reasons why your power-strip is charred, not having a surge protector, circuit overloading, missing internal circuit breaker, power strip daisy chaining, plugging addition items into the duplex outlet, repeated moisture damage, to name a few. In any event all of the things listed will go unnoticed by the GFI, they are only there for ground faults. Please do not attempt to inform people otherwise, your logic is flawed. Its not a matter of opinion, its a static right/wrong.

Don't mean to come off harsh. Just happens that way.

[whatcaneyedo]

I've personally had it happen as well were I've splashed a powerbar that was not plugged into a GFI outlet and watched it crackle and smoke before I shut it off. I have then had it happen again after I had installed the GFI outlets and they shut off immediately before anything else could happen. Even if stopping fires is not what they are intended to do you have to admit it can happen.

These are the 5 cases I mentioned to the best of my knowledge.
1. Water ran down a cord to the electrical socket behind the tank. Fire originates at electrical socket. The fire does enough damage to kill everything in the tank.
2. Previously overloaded timer presently being used to turn a 150W MH on and off spontaneously catches fire. The fire leaves some black scorch marks around the timer.
3. A powerbar sitting on the floor behind a tank subjected to a lot moisture and corrosion catches fire and leaves black scorch marks on the wall behind the tank.
4. The ballast blows (why? no one knows...) in a regular fluorescent light fixture above a tank. The fire does significant damage to the basement of the house, the aquarium glass explodes onto the floor.
5. Another regular florescent fixture hanging over a tank begins to smoke (moisture, corrosion, spray? I dont know). The smoke is significant and everything in the tank dies.

Based on this little information could none of these have been prevented with GFIs? In at least 3 of the 5 cases it was a combination of electricity+water=fire. If a GFI trips when electricity and water meet is it not conceivable that they would prevent a fire?

[RR37]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

I've personally had it happen as well were
These are the 5 cases I mentioned to the best of my knowledge.
1. Water ran down a cord to the electrical socket behind the tank. Fire originates at electrical socket. The fire does enough damage to kill everything in the tank.
2. Previously overloaded timer presently being used to turn a 150W MH on and off spontaneously catches fire. The fire leaves some black scorch marks around the timer.
3. A powerbar sitting on the floor behind a tank subjected to a lot moisture and corrosion catches fire and leaves black scorch marks on the wall behind the tank.
4. The ballast blows (why? no one knows...) in a regular fluorescent light fixture above a tank. The fire does significant damage to the basement of the house, the aquarium glass explodes onto the floor.
5. Another regular florescent fixture hanging over a tank begins to smoke (moisture, corrosion, spray? I dont know). The smoke is significant and everything in the tank dies.

Based on this little information could none of these have been prevented with GFIs? In at least 3 of the 5 cases it was a combination of electricity+water=fire. If a GFI trips when electricity and water meet is it not conceivable that they would prevent a fire?

Thats the common misconception regarding GFIs its not the water that trips them, its the ground or lack there of. A GFI will only trip when the power moving from the receptacle to the object being powered does not match what is moving back into the receptacle, from said object. That may be just getting wet or that may mean it getting wet while you are holding it or any other number of possibilities/situations. It does not sound like a grounding problem in any of those instances, sounds like an arcing problem from here.

an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhW9V...eature=related

[Doug]

Originally Posted by RR37

I think you missed the point,

GFI = GOOD

AFCI or FUSE = GOOD

Using both = DOUBLE GOOD

Not knocking a GFCI I think the are a necessity. Anyone not having one should think about getting one. While you are doing the GFI, look into fusing your system somehow. Claiming they will prevent fire is a false sense of security, A GFI will prevent unwanted shock and electrocution, seeing as that is all they were designed to do. ( In a situation where a fault in grounding is present )

There are any number of reasons why your power-strip is charred, not having a surge protector, circuit overloading, missing internal circuit breaker, power strip daisy chaining, plugging addition items into the duplex outlet, repeated moisture damage, to name a few. In any event all of the things listed will go unnoticed by the GFI, they are only there for ground faults. Please do not attempt to inform people otherwise, your logic is flawed. Its not a matter of opinion, its a static right/wrong.

Don't mean to come off harsh. Just happens that way.

AFCI cant run everything though, as it wont fire halides.

[RR37]

Originally Posted by Doug

AFCI cant run everything though, as it wont fire halides.

I didn't know that, I fused my blue wave 7 without issue. I will have to give the Afi a shot and see what happens. Im wondering if this would only be an issue with ballasts involving an integrated ignitor.

[reefermadness]

Induction loads such as a MH or motor starting can trip a AFCI.

As far as GFCI protecting us from fires. It will protect us from some fires.... It is pretty good at protecting from fires caused by water on recepticles.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by RR37

I didn't know that, I fused my blue wave 7 without issue. I will have to give the Afi a shot and see what happens. Im wondering if this would only be an issue with ballasts involving an integrated ignitor.

Could be. I dont recall which ballast I was running. I have not fired one on that line since, having put in a second aquarium only circuit. It does fine with t-5 bulbs though.

[fishoholic]

I don't know much about the technical aspect of GFIC's but I do know that when I noticed my power head in my tank wasn't working I saw that the GFIC had been tripped. So I unplugged the cord, reset the GFIC and then plugged the cord back in again, and again it tripped the GFIC, the breaker the GFIC was on never tripped, it only tripped the GFIC.

When I finally looked back behind the tank and examined the power cord, much to my shock this is what I found:





All I have to say is thank God that the GFIC tripped, because the breaker it was on never did. Also very thankful that the only thing that got fried was the power cord and power head. I'm guessing water splashed out of the tank and onto the extension cord, causing a small electrical fire (which you can see the damage done to the cords in the above pic.'s) causing the GFIC to trip. Needless to say IMO if the GFIC hadn't tripped (or if I didn't have one) I'm guessing the damage would of been a lot worse!

[Myka]

It sounds like everyone in this thread thinks they know what they are talking about, but in reality it is a bunch of opinions without much education on a topic that is pretty important, and doesn't have room for opinions. Electricity doesn't run on opinion, it runs on predictable facts. Time for an electrician to chime in, and state the facts.

[RR37]

Originally Posted by Myka

It sounds like everyone in this thread thinks they know what they are talking about, but in reality it is a bunch of opinions without much education on a topic that is pretty important, and doesn't have room for opinions. Electricity doesn't run on opinion, it runs on predictable facts. Time for an electrician to chime in, and state the facts.

Already tried stating the facts, GFI's only protect against electrocutions involving a ground fault. (Which is why I used them ) Anything else that can/will/may happen is circumstantial at best. Ergo, claiming that a house would not have burned down had said person(s) installed a GFI is absurd.