3 fish dead in 2 weeks and it does not look good for the rest

kien · #1 06-16-2010, 03:48 AM

If it appears as tho they are getting a velvetty texture they could have marine velvet. The early stages of preceicable velvet infestation can appear like ich.. Sort of small white spots. If this is the case you may not have any choice but to treat your display tank with copper. Maybe take out most of your live rock and store them in Tupperware while you are treating the fish. If you do use copper whatever live rock and sand you have will have to be thrown out later. A QT tank would be best but you said that's out of the question. If left untreated you will likely lose the rest of the fish, just a matter of time

kien · #2 06-16-2010, 03:49 AM

Also, you did not post the most important parameter, Ammonia. I assume and hope it is zero.

sitandwatch · #3 06-16-2010, 03:57 AM

Yup Ammonia is at 0.

And really hoping that its not velet also

Chaloupa · #4 06-16-2010, 03:58 AM

I hate to say, but I also agree...it does sound like and look like Marine Velvet. I lost a tankful to it once....sorry...

kien · #5 06-16-2010, 04:01 AM

Sadly, hoping that it isn't velvet isn't going to make it go away. If it looks like velvet and acts like velvet (killing your fish quickly, laboured breathing, etc), I would assume the worst and act quickly and accordingly. Time is probably not on your side with this one.

#6 06-16-2010, 04:27 AM

+1 fishoholic I would believe her just read post on MV it is moving... and I sympathies with her for what she went through.

It looks like velvet and the only thing to treat it with is Copper nothing else works freshwater baths while you QT all fish and then the DT has to remain dark and fallow for 3 months to be rid of it. I would QT each fish separately in 10g tanks then the least affected fish have a better chance of making it with out any stress from other fish the QT also has to remain dark. Ambient light from a room for feeding and remember to feed food that has been soaked with garlic and selcon to help with the fish's metabolism and immune system the copper will most likely affect their livers any tangs or angle fish their stomachs bacteria will be killed so they may not do so well.
I wish you all the best with this as you have to be dedicated to help these fish FW dips every day helps a bit. lower the salinity and raise the temp treat with copper. As posted while I was typing water changes. Thats all I can offer you the way of help, other than if they are not going to make it clove oil will put them down. I would dip them first and find out if they have flukes but that would be the worst case of flukes I have seen in a long time.
Bill

fishoholic · #7 06-16-2010, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvlester

It looks like velvet and the only thing to treat it with is Copper nothing else works freshwater baths while you QT all fish and then the DT has to remain dark and fallow for 3 months to be rid of it. I would QT each fish separately in 10g tanks then the least affected fish have a better chance of making it with out any stress from other fish the QT also has to remain dark. Ambient light from a room for feeding and remember to feed food that has been soaked with garlic and selcon to help with the fish's metabolism and immune system the copper will most likely affect their livers any tangs or angle fish their stomachs bacteria will be killed so they may not do so well.
I wish you all the best with this as you have to be dedicated to help these fish FW dips every day helps a bit. lower the salinity and raise the temp. Thats all I can offer you the way of help, other than if they are not going to make it clove oil will put them down. I would dip them first and find out if they have flukes but that would be the worst case of flukes I have seen in a long time.
Bill

Agreed about the FW dips. It wasn't until close to the 2nd week of treatment and I got brave enough to do FW dips that I noticed huge improvements with the fish's ability to breathe better.

fishoholic · #8 06-16-2010, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvlester

+1 fishoholic I would believe her just read post on MV it is moving... and I sympathies with her for what she went through.

Honestly it was the worst thing I ever went through in my life. The saddest day for me was when my when my regal tang was dying and it was like she couldn't take the pain the MV was putting her through any more. She started to swim as hard as she could smashing herself into the glass along the sides of the tank and jumping up and smashing her head on the top of the lid to the QT tank. It literally was like she was trying to kill herself (or at least knock herself out) in order to stop the pain. I cried a lot after watching that and I still cry at the thought of it. Makes me sick that I didn't try to save them sooner

Do yourself a favor and take Kien's offer of help.

naesco · #9 06-16-2010, 05:05 AM

It is almost impossible to say whether it is ich or marine velvet from your picture.
When you look at the fish lengthwise do you see tiny salt-like specs on it?
If that is the case it is ich and what you need to do immediately is treat the fish as the infestation is serious.
Here is what you do.
Soak dry food like flakes in garlic extract from a health food store or garlic extreme from a LFS. Dry food because it soaks up the garlic much better.
Feed only garlic soaked food as the idea is to put as much garlic in the fish a fast as possible.
Feed very often, overload the fish with this food for the same reason.
If it is not salt like specs you have marine velvet and follow the advice given in the other posts. IME marine velvet kills quickly from the first signs and I note you say that they are dying over a period of 2 weeks.

kien · #10 06-22-2010, 04:16 AM

Well, I'm not going to say that we are in the clear but I think we have definitely seen the worst of it as the fish are healing up now. I've done a weeks worth of cupramine and formalin and some hefty water changes in there somewhere with another week to go. I think the fish are sick of garlic now

but they do love my fish mush.

If you scroll back to the beginning of this thread you'll see how they looked before I took them in. They are definitely looking a lot better now. The clowns are no longer covered in baby powder. The Pink Tail just has a few spots left and is black again. He was almost white and very lethargic when I took him. Both the Yellow Tang and the Niger are completely clear of any visible infestation.