Bubble Magus Pricing

[Zoaelite]

Oh god I love vendor fights

[Chowder]

[Chowder]

Here's an interesting read on RC.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...438511&page=65

[StirCrazy]

I have to agree with Ian on basicly everything.. although Aqua digital had found some nice products in other contries and had to forsite to get distrubitor rights, he has priced them out of the common persons reach for no reason.

way I see it, you can sell 10 products at a proffit of 150 each or sell 200 at a profit 20 each.. which one will make you more money?

as for losses during sea shipping, all containers are insured and yes it is common to lose containers but the purchaser doesn't lose money over this as the insurance company will make up the loss. we have to deal with the insurance company requirments all the time when searching containers for bad stuff. I should say had to as I don't do that anymore..


Steve

[Aqua-Digital]

Hi Steve,

I have to correct one important point here

WE Aqua Digital DID NOT set the MAP price, lets be very clear on this.

Bubble Magus approached us as to what we thought the best MAP price would be, this was then taken to their company owner who then passed it onto all other distribtuors, as of yesterday ALL distributors and Bubble Magus agreed on the price.

I dont mind having muck thrown at me when it is deserved, but in this case, no we did not set the price and have no control over the MAP price.

Only last week we sent a revised price list with adjusted prices and here is the reply.

quote

Hi Michael ,
The retail price (shop price ) ,we still use previous price ,not the new price whcih you sent it to me some days ago .(please change your retail price at once ,thanks )
Regards
Jason


2010-05-20
________________________________________
Jason


In regards to claiming losses from shipping, our insurance bill would be mammoth if we claimed for every crushed skimmer we got, in fact our policy has a $5000 deductable, so yes this is quite valid as it is classed as uninsurable losses.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

Hi Steve,

I have to correct one important point here

WE Aqua Digital DID NOT set the MAP price, lets be very clear on this.

Bubble Magus approached us as to what we thought the best MAP price would be, this was then taken to their company owner who then passed it onto all other distribtuors, as of yesterday ALL distributors and Bubble Magus agreed on the price.

ah, but you did recomend the MAP and it was accepted which means you set the price. Basicly they were selling for xxx amount befor you.. you recomended xxx+xx amount for the N/A market and they said ok. then when you find out people can buy them cheeper overseas you send a e-mail complaining that local markets are undercutting you and selling in your area as per the agrement. the parent company either loses this market as they have signed some tearm with you as a minimum or they force the other retailers to increase prices..

I do have some experiance in distrubution as I am a distrubitor of a product in westren canada, but nothing to so with fish stuff.

Steve

[Aqua-Digital]

I am going to drop out of this now as it is important for you guys to talk amongst yourselves over this but I will pinpoint some important facts below

1. The MAP price is set by Bubble magus, ALL distributors put on the table what they feel is correct based on market conditions and BM set the MAP from there taking all costs and market influences into consideration. So if you are unhappy with it contact them, we simply put our costs and proposals down and BM thumped the numbers from there based on everyones input.

2. BM is a high grade range, but they made an early mistake in marketing by selling it to anyone at factory prices. This in the short term has created threads just like this as "everyones" expectations were set so price point low. This will take time to reverse but it will do.

3. The product is selling like crazy we cant keep it in stock, same as the other distributors, so does that mean we, BM, other distributors around the world got the price wrong?

4. For the product to have a legitimate right in this maket it needs correct pricing and fair pricing based on current market trends and client expectations. As the product has been well received at these prices BM will not change this, furthermore with these prices the product has become more widely available to more stores so more users have access to the product.

Whichever way, you can continue to blame AQD for the price but then you are ignoring the genuine facts as per the email I placed in the last thread which clearly shows BM controlling our price.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

I am going to drop out of this now as it is important for you guys to talk amongst yourselves over this but I will pinpoint some important facts below

1. The MAP price is set by Bubble magus, ALL distributors put on the table what they feel is correct based on market conditions and BM set the MAP from there taking all costs and market influences into consideration. So if you are unhappy with it contact them, we simply put our costs and proposals down and BM thumped the numbers from there based on everyones input.

Yes, BM has final say on the MAP but you obviously had influence on that. Higher MAP means higher profits for you does it not? Enough said.

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

2. BM is a high grade range, but they made an early mistake in marketing by selling it to anyone at factory prices. This in the short term has created threads just like this as "everyones" expectations were set so price point low. This will take time to reverse but it will do.

As stated by others, BM is a decent mid range product, not high end. And I still don't buy this argument. They were not selling me a skimmer. They sold it to an overseas retailer who bought it from them just like they would get any other product directly from the manufacturer or through a distributor. I bought it from that retail store that happened to be overseas instead of down the street. So Bubble Magus had a wholesale price they sold at and the retailers added their markup and that's what I paid. Retail price in that market, not factory price. Stop trying to make this sound like Bubble Magus was selling directly to end users. They were not.

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

3. The product is selling like crazy we cant keep it in stock, same as the other distributors, so does that mean we, BM, other distributors around the world got the price wrong?

I guess in the end they (or you) charge what the market will bear. Good for you guys. Doesn't change the fact that they could have had larger market share by having a slightly lower price. Also doesn't change the fact that you and they have lost some additional sales due to the increased price. Eventually the initial spike in interest for BM will fill and they will become just another product competing with the Reef Octopus and Vertex and eShopps etc. I am far less likely to buy a BM again if there are other competing products in the same price range. I am not alone in that.

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

4. For the product to have a legitimate right in this maket it needs correct pricing and fair pricing based on current market trends and client expectations. As the product has been well received at these prices BM will not change this, furthermore with these prices the product has become more widely available to more stores so more users have access to the product.

That is bull$hit. Sorry but it is. This is a bunch of hand waving BS to try to justify a certain price point that has little basis in the economics of the actual product and more on the economics of how products in our hobby in general are marketed. Market trends and client expectations should be far less of a concern then what it costs to to make the product plus a reasonable profit for all levels in the distribution chain. And how exactly does higher pricing equate to greater availability? Really, can you come up with a logical argument? Lower pricing would mean higher sales driving more demand from retail stores wanting to carry the line due t even higher demand from the customers.

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

Whichever way, you can continue to blame AQD for the price but then you are ignoring the genuine facts as per the email I placed in the last thread which clearly shows BM controlling our price.

What facts? Them confirming a MAP that you yourself said you had input into it?

You still didn't answer my question. Who is profiting from the increased MAP? Bubble Magus or you? Did BM raise their wholesale price significantly along with the raised MAP? Or are the other levels in the supply chain the ones benefitting more from the higher MAP?

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Originally Posted by Ron99

You still didn't answer my question. Who is profiting from the increased MAP? Bubble Magus or you? Did BM raise their wholesale price significantly along with the raised MAP? Or are the other levels in the supply chain the ones benefitting more from the higher MAP?

Bubble Magus did not raise their wholesale pricing.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

2. BM is a high grade range, but they made an early mistake in marketing by selling it to anyone at factory prices. This in the short term has created threads just like this as "everyones" expectations were set so price point low. This will take time to reverse but it will do.

Just to add, you yourself set those expectations when you posted estimates of prices that went up dramatically by the time they actually reached the market. Now those original estimates must have been based on crunching the numbers such as the wholesale price from BM, the shipping costs, duty etc. which you should have been able to do easily since you have been in this business for a while.

You set some expectations and those then changed quite a bit. Not just a little but alot. A 180CS went from $349 to $499. That's a big jump. It's not unreasonable for us to now want an explanation as to why that went up so much. Who is the beneficiary of that big price jump? Goes back to my original question. Did BM raise the wholesale price dramatically? Did they raise it at all? Or are you benefitting from the big price jump?