Aquarist found dead

[no_bs]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Thanks for that. Not to bash but that site drives me nuts, and I've been a member there longer than here.

Yeah, sorry edited. Catch your drift.

[marvinsae]

wish i read this a few hours ago, got shocked a few times cause the wire of a cheap rio pump was exposed to the water...so what should i do? purchase a cgfi outlet and a grounding probe? what exactly is a grounding probe and what does it do

[no_bs]

It will take stray voltage away from the tank.
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s...oduct_ID=mc-gp

[reefbyremote]

The author wrote "You must have BOTH a ground probe and a GFCI" to be safe.

Is that true? Why both? I run a GFCI and want to understand why you would also need a ground probe. Any electrical or safety experts out there?

[outacontrol]

The ground probe is there to help the GFCI operate, the GFCI is the safety device and is the most important part of the safe aquarium.
The GFCI will work alone without the ground probe, however the ground probe alone without the GFCI is more dangerous than having nothing. The danger in electricity is when you become its path of least resistance to ground.
THE GFCI IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART!

[rkelman]

"Being an electrical engineer"

I'd say the OP is an expert.

[Dolf]

I'll play devils advocate. It is not at all unusual for me to be gone from the house for 16 or even 18 hours at a time. If I have some stray voltage trip the breaker at 8:00 I will come home at midnight and find everything dead from cold and lack of circulation.

A few weeks ago I gave myself a jolt when one of my Sedra pumps was putting some voltage into the tank and was actually happy that I don't run a GFCI as I really do not know how long the power would have been out. A grounding probe would be a good idea for me and I am now on the hunt for one, but I will take my chances with the rest.

I'm not saying it is the smart way of doing things, only that the thought of killing everything in my tank (again) for tripping a breaker does not appeal to me. I was out of the hobby for years after everything in my tank died due to a breaker tripping and don't care for a repeat.

[DiverDude]

A grain of salt (pardon the pun) is called for here.

120VAC from a wall plug can certainly kill you -and as it has been pointed out, it takes mere milliamps (thousandths of an amp) to cause your heart to fibrilate. However, this in only even remotely likely in certain circumstances where the current path is across the heart (like if you had your left hand in a live tank and your right hand on a low impedance path to ground -like a lightswitch).

If you have a grounding probe (that is properly grounded) in your tank and there is an exposed wire in the tank then:

1) If there is enough conductivity between the live wire and the ground probe (like a dead short) then the circuit breaker will blow. That's when they're designed for; to protect property and prevent fires, etc. (not save your life).

2) If the conductivity is high enough so that not enough current flows to flip the breaker -OR- if you do not have a ground probe, then you potentially have a body of water at anywhere up to 120 Volts. In this case, if you put your hand in the water and present a path to ground, then, yes, you can get a shock. However, unless, you are barefoot, standing in a puddle of water that is in contact with something that is grounded, then while you may feel something, it is unlikely that you will be injured.

In fact, the most likely injury you would suffer would be from yanking your hand out and hitting it on your light or something.

Electricity always follows the path of least resistance (it's lazy, just like us) so if the ground probe is present it will present a low resistance path to ground and you will conduct very little by comparison -unless of course you're still standing in that puddle in which case you could be in trouble.

You can drown in less than an inch of water too; you just need to be face down, covering both your nose and mouth -oh, and you'll need to be unconscious at the same time -all possible but not very probable. You stand a far better chance of winning the 6/49 than being killed by your aquarium.

Am I saying this is all fear mongering ? No. Never compromise on safety and GFCI's and ground probes make sense and are inexpensive anyhow. But if you don't have these you are not necessarily 'just waiting to die' either.

[outacontrol]

Originally Posted by DiverDude

A grain of salt (pardon the pun) is called for here.

120VAC from a wall plug can certainly kill you -and as it has been pointed out, it takes mere milliamps (thousandths of an amp) to cause your heart to fibrilate. However, this in only even remotely likely in certain circumstances where the current path is across the heart (like if you had your left hand in a live tank and your right hand on a low impedance path to ground -like a lightswitch).

If you have a grounding probe (that is properly grounded) in your tank and there is an exposed wire in the tank then:

1) If there is enough conductivity between the live wire and the ground probe (like a dead short) then the circuit breaker will blow. That's when they're designed for; to protect property and prevent fires, etc. (not save your life).

2) If the conductivity is high enough so that not enough current flows to flip the breaker -OR- if you do not have a ground probe, then you potentially have a body of water at anywhere up to 120 Volts. In this case, if you put your hand in the water and present a path to ground, then, yes, you can get a shock. However, unless, you are barefoot, standing in a puddle of water that is in contact with something that is grounded, then while you may feel something, it is unlikely that you will be injured.

In fact, the most likely injury you would suffer would be from yanking your hand out and hitting it on your light or something.

Electricity always follows the path of least resistance (it's lazy, just like us) so if the ground probe is present it will present a low resistance path to ground and you will conduct very little by comparison -unless of course you're still standing in that puddle in which case you could be in trouble.

You can drown in less than an inch of water too; you just need to be face down, covering both your nose and mouth -oh, and you'll need to be unconscious at the same time -all possible but not very probable. You stand a far better chance of winning the 6/49 than being killed by your aquarium.

Am I saying this is all fear mongering ? No. Never compromise on safety and GFCI's and ground probes make sense and are inexpensive anyhow. But if you don't have these you are not necessarily 'just waiting to die' either.

One question for you then, what happens when the fault is in your light and you touch your light, which due to the fault is energized (120 volt, possibly due to a melted wire) then you stick your other hand in the tank?
My answer:
a) If you have a ground probe and no GFCI you are dead.
b) You have no ground probe and no GFCI, you get one hell of a shock and may or may not be okay.
c) You have a GFCI receptacle or breaker and it trips and everyone lives another day, and you go onto Canreef looking for help to fix your light.

I pick C for me, tell your next of kin to let me know how A or B goes for you.

[mark]

in the Ground Probes section (here) examples why a probe only not a good idea and also reasons for GFCI