I'm Looking for Kyolic Garlic in liquid form in calgary??? need asap

[albert_dao]

I haven't seen a single garlic product that has had convincing results. Most of them do not even contain the active ingredient, allicin, as it rapidly oxidizes...

If you want to treat ich, have someone with a quarantine tank hit them with copper - ASAP.

FYI, cleaner shrimp and wrasses do not eat ich.

[wickedfrags]

What albert_dao said above. Save your money, well at least don't spend it on garlic or non-copper based additives to treat ick.

Originally Posted by albert_dao

I haven't seen a single garlic product that has had convincing results.

If you want to treat ich, have someone with a quarantine tank hit them with copper - ASAP.

FYI, cleaner shrimp and wrasses do not eat ich.

[banditpowdercoat]

HEavy feedings with Garlic and Selcon clean up my Ick issues before. So it must do something!

[wickedfrags]

If you say so, but I did ALOT of research on this when I imported saltwater fish...what you likely observed was the stage where the otherwise invisible internal parasite left the host fish (the white spots). Subsequent infection was not as serious, or the fish was strong enough not to get re-infected.

Provided the fish keeps eating (and assuming you can not easrily remove them to a suitable quarantine tank) ich is a reef is really not worth treating. Maintaining a very stable temperature (very little temp. fluctuation) is useful during this time (and always) as it is less stressful on the fish.

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

HEavy feedings with Garlic and Selcon clean up my Ick issues before. So it must do something!

[viperfish]

Garlic and Selcon aren't totally useless, they are very beneficial in improving the health of the fish and that alone helps them fight off ich. I have done a lot of research as well and the active ingredient, Allicin, dissapates very quickly once the oil is extracted from the garlic. I extracted my own oil by taking two whole garlic and squeezing the cloves through a garlic press several times, I then mushed it up some more with a mortar and pestal, finally I poured the pulp in a media bag and squeezed the juice out. This way you have all of the allicin still in there, it will keep for a few days in the refrigerator. I didn't have the luxury of being able to pull the fish out of my 180 so I decided to add two Golden Head Sleeper Gobies to turn the substrate and disrupt the ich reproduction in the sand bed, I also added a Cleaner Wrasse to pick the ich off the fish in the tank. I did not lose one fish and I have not seen any sign of ich since. I have since pulled my Gobies because they did thier job too well and had all my corals covered in sand. My Cleaner Wrasse is still there and doing fine eating small mysis and even eating veggies from the clip. I'm not saying this is the definitive cure but it worked for me.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by medhatreefguy

Garlic and Selcon aren't totally useless, they are very beneficial in improving the health of the fish and that alone helps them fight off ich. I have done a lot of research as well and the active ingredient, Allicin, dissapates very quickly once the oil is extracted from the garlic. I extracted my own oil by taking two whole garlic and squeezing the cloves through a garlic press several times, I then mushed it up some more with a mortar and pestal, finally I poured the pulp in a media bag and squeezed the juice out. This way you have all of the allicin still in there, it will keep for a few days in the refrigerator. I didn't have the luxury of being able to pull the fish out of my 180 so I decided to add two Golden Head Sleeper Gobies to turn the substrate and disrupt the ich reproduction in the sand bed, I also added a Cleaner Wrasse to pick the ich off the fish in the tank. I did not lose one fish and I have not seen any sign of ich since. I have since pulled my Gobies because they did thier job too well and had all my corals covered in sand. My Cleaner Wrasse is still there and doing fine eating small mysis and even eating veggies from the clip. I'm not saying this is the definitive cure but it worked for me.

Please do not take any offense to this, but the above is an anecdotal statement. Allicin is not easily preserved in the presence of oxygen, refrigerated or otherwise.

The problem I have with these statements is that they can be misleading and, ultimately, do no more than create a costly false sense of efficacy (costly to the fish that is).

Furthermore, I have a particular issue with the malpractice of recommending cleaner wrasses to clear up ich. There is no evidence that cleaner wrasses or shrimp eating the ich parasites (the fact that there are a multitude of white spot diseases shorthanded as 'ich' notwithstanding). The assumption that you are doing your fish a favor by purchasing these remedial animals is a great disservice to the both the infected fish and the 'solution'.

Do yourselves a favor, get a quarantine tank cycled and treat with copper.

[viperfish]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Please do not take any offense to this, but the above is an anecdotal statement. Allicin is not easily preserved in the presence of oxygen, refrigerated or otherwise.

The problem I have with these statements is that they can be misleading and, ultimately, do no more than create a costly false sense of efficacy (costly to the fish that is).

Furthermore, I have a particular issue with the malpractice of recommending cleaner wrasses to clear up ich. There is no evidence that cleaner wrasses or shrimp eating the ich parasites (the fact that there are a multitude of white spot diseases shorthanded as 'ich' notwithstanding). The assumption that you are doing your fish a favor by purchasing these remedial animals is a great disservice to the both the infected fish and the 'solution'.

Do yourselves a favor, get a quarantine tank cycled and treat with copper.

I think you mistook my statement, I'm not presenting scientific data that can be used to substantiate a cure for ich, nor am I trying to market anything for personal gain in any way. I merely stated the method I used to overcome the problem, and the end result was a success. Which approach worked, or if all of them worked I don't know. For the amount of research that has been done, we still know very little about the effect of garlic on ich in an aquarium, other than it makes the whole room smell like crap. These "remedial animals" get the same care as everything else in the tank. My Cleaner Wrasse is very healthy and eating well on food other than parasites. To correct you, I do not have any infected fish in my tank. I find it ironic that your approach is to treat a fish with copper which is one of the most stressful things you could do to a fish, not to mention the only way to do this successfully is to remove all of the fish from the tank and run it fallow until the parasite has run its course. This is an option that many people such as myself do not have. Once again I am not trying to mislead people, and I don't think feeding food soaked in garlic or introducing a few new fish is going to result in disaster. Of all the options available, none are any better than a mere shot in the dark, everyone is looking for the same thing, a safe treatment that helps get rid of ich. I'm not the Pied Piper, I doubt if everyone is going to blindly try my approach, give people some credit here. Just one more thing, why would you cycle a quarantine tank when the copper is going to kill everything off anyway?

[RD]

Yo, Albert!

I haven't seen a single garlic product that has had convincing results. Most of them do not even contain the active ingredient, allicin, as it rapidly oxidizes...

While I agree with you that garlic will most likely not have any great effect on curing marine ich (and your advise on treating with copper is spot on), I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the use of garlic entirely. Also, in most of the aquaculture studies that I am aware of the garlic that was used was not fresh, or a derivative was used, including garlic powder. Allicin is not the only compound found in garlic, and much is still unknown in this area, especially regarding marine fish.


http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?scri...lng=en&nrm=iso

While the document linked to above is a very long read, in the end the authors state:

Finally, from the obtained results it could be recommended that garlic (Allium Sativum) may be used as a growth promoter and antibiotic for the treatment or prevention of diseases and for enhancing fish tolerance to environmental stress (62); therefore garlic powder should be added to the diet of freshwater fish.

A. M. Shalaby et al. EFFECTS OF GARLIC (Allium sativum) AND CHLORAMPHENICOL ON GROWTH PERFORMANCE, PHYSIOLOGICAL PARAMETERS AND SURVIVAL OF NILE TILAPIA (Oreochromis niloticus).

Fish Hatchery and Reproductive Physiology Department, Central Laboratory for Aquaculture Research, Abbassa, Abo-Hammad, Sharkia, Egypt

J. Venom. Anim. Toxins incl. Trop. Dis., 2006, 12, 2, p.196

In this particular study the inclusion of garlic at a rate of 3% (via garlic powder) has shown to increase the overall digestibilty of protein, carbohydrates, and fat (ie; better growth), as well as to lower the total bacteria count within the intestine, muscles, and water column.


In Norway, the Austevoll Aquaculture Research Station has studied the use of garlic as a natural biocide against sea lice, with positive results.
http://www.onefish.org/servlet/CDSSe...50cyYzNz1pbmZv


There are other studies that have also shown very positive results in using garlic as a more natural way to control various pathogens.


Effect of Allium sativum on the immunity and survival of Labeo rohita infected with Aeromonas hydrophila
S. Sahu, B. K. Das, B. K. Mishra, J. Pradhan and N. Sarangi

Aquatic Animal Health Division, Central Institute of Freshwater Aquaculture, Kausalyaganga, Bhubaneswar, India

Journal of Applied Ichthyology, Volume 23 Issue 1, Pages 80 - 86


Quote:
Summary

The aim of this study was to evaluate dietary dosages of garlic on the immune response and disease resistance against infections due to the opportunistic pathogen Aeromonas hydrophila in Labeo rohita fingerlings. Garlic, Allium sativum, was incorporated into the diets (0%, 0.1%, 0.5% and 1.0%) of rohu, L. rohita fingerlings (10 ± 2 g). Every 20 days, different biochemical (serum total protein, albumin, globulin, albumin : globulin ratio, blood glucose), haematological (WBC, RBC and haemoglobin content) and immunological (superoxide anion production, lysozyme activity and serum bactericidal activity) parameters were evaluated. Superoxide anion production, lysozyme, serum bactericidal, serum protein and albumin were enhanced in garlic treated groups compared with the control group. After 60 days, fish were challenged with A. hydrophila and mortality (%) was recorded up to day 10 post-challenge. Survival decreased in control group (57%) up to day 10 after infection. However, this was increased in the garlic treatment group, i.e. 85% survivability in the 1 g garlic kg−1 (B group) and 5 g garlic kg−1 (C group), and 71% survivability in the 10 g garlic kg−1 (D group), respectively. These results indicate that Allium sativum stimulates the immunity and makes L. rohita more resistant to infection by A. hydrophila.

And yet another study .........

EFFECT OF GARLIC ON THE SURVIVAL, GROWTH, RESISTANCE AND QUALITY OF OREOCHROMIS NILOTICUS
Salah Mesalhy Aly, Nashwa Mahmoud Abdel Atti* and Mohamed Fathi Mohamed

The WorldFish Center, Research Center for Africa & West Asia, Abbassa, Sharkia, Egypt.
Dept of Food Hygiene, Animal Health Research Institute, Ismailia Laboratory, Egypt.

http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/IS...%20Meselhy.pdf

In Israel, researchers from the Ben Gurion University aquaculture dept. are also experimenting with allicen, the active ingredient in garlic, for its anti-bacterial properties.
http://www.foodengineeringmag.com/Ar...100000f932a8c0


Hope all is well in Van!

Neil

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by RD

Yo, Albert!



While I agree with you that garlic will most likely not have any great effect on curing marine ich (and your advise on treating with copper is spot on), I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the use of garlic entirely. Also, in most of the aquaculture studies that I am aware of the garlic that was used was not fresh, or a derivative was used, including garlic powder. Allicin is not the only compound found in garlic, and much is still unknown in this area, especially regarding marine fish.


http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?scri...lng=en&nrm=iso

While the document linked to above is a very long read, in the end the authors state:



A. M. Shalaby et al. EFFECTS OF GARLIC (Allium sativum) AND CHLORAMPHENICOL ON GROWTH PERFORMANCE, PHYSIOLOGICAL PARAMETERS AND SURVIVAL OF NILE TILAPIA (Oreochromis niloticus).

Fish Hatchery and Reproductive Physiology Department, Central Laboratory for Aquaculture Research, Abbassa, Abo-Hammad, Sharkia, Egypt

J. Venom. Anim. Toxins incl. Trop. Dis., 2006, 12, 2, p.196

In this particular study the inclusion of garlic at a rate of 3% (via garlic powder) has shown to increase the overall digestibilty of protein, carbohydrates, and fat (ie; better growth), as well as to lower the total bacteria count within the intestine, muscles, and water column.


In Norway, the Austevoll Aquaculture Research Station has studied the use of garlic as a natural biocide against sea lice, with positive results.
http://www.onefish.org/servlet/CDSSe...50cyYzNz1pbmZv


There are other studies that have also shown very positive results in using garlic as a more natural way to control various pathogens.


Effect of Allium sativum on the immunity and survival of Labeo rohita infected with Aeromonas hydrophila
S. Sahu, B. K. Das, B. K. Mishra, J. Pradhan and N. Sarangi

Aquatic Animal Health Division, Central Institute of Freshwater Aquaculture, Kausalyaganga, Bhubaneswar, India

Journal of Applied Ichthyology, Volume 23 Issue 1, Pages 80 - 86


Quote:
Summary




And yet another study .........

EFFECT OF GARLIC ON THE SURVIVAL, GROWTH, RESISTANCE AND QUALITY OF OREOCHROMIS NILOTICUS
Salah Mesalhy Aly, Nashwa Mahmoud Abdel Atti* and Mohamed Fathi Mohamed

The WorldFish Center, Research Center for Africa & West Asia, Abbassa, Sharkia, Egypt.
Dept of Food Hygiene, Animal Health Research Institute, Ismailia Laboratory, Egypt.

http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/IS...%20Meselhy.pdf

In Israel, researchers from the Ben Gurion University aquaculture dept. are also experimenting with allicen, the active ingredient in garlic, for its anti-bacterial properties.
http://www.foodengineeringmag.com/Ar...100000f932a8c0


Hope all is well in Van!

Neil

Hey Neil! Long time no speak

I will address this later (my lunch hour just expired).