how many times a hour should the water go through the sump?

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

Ok this whole thing is bing made a lot more complacated that it has to be. let me try clarafy and put an end to the back and forth which is getting no where and just confusing people reading this.

Whenever I see this statement written it always means the same thing. you simply do not believe it and your way is the best way and you cannot prove it, you have been offered a number of alternatives with proof yet you want us to believe you rather than have a civil discussion, you are tired of trying to get us to believe that we are wrong.

I really do not care if we confuse people, I am sure if they ask the correct questions they will get the correct answers, and it isn't because we always did it that way.

Even if we confuse people then at least they start to think about it one poster even admitted that he tried something in blind faith and found it to be so good he tells everybody, until he tried it he simply did not believe it.

I answered an opening post about flow trough the sump, I answered with facts yet for some reason because it isn't not what you are doing then it is wrong.

I did call skimmer manufactures, many of them and was given the same answer, over sizing the skimmer or giving the skimmer more water than it requires is a absolute waste of money.

[MikeInToronto]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

... one poster even admitted that he tried something in blind faith and found it to be so good he tells everybody, until he tried it he simply did not believe it.

To be fair, the overflow system made sense and I couldn't find any fault in it. Plus, once it was set up I had hard proof it worked, even though I didn't set it up exactly as I should. If someone then told me it was noisy or didn't work I'd probably laugh before I got angry.

But I am not totally convinced about everything in this thread. It is mostly theoretical. Logically it makes sense but there is no way I could prove it for myself. Logically a high sump flow makes sense, too. I read StirCrazy's posts and he has good points. This is why there is debate. In the beananimal thread, you noticed that the nay-sayers eventually fell away. I don't think they will ever fall away here. Countless people have healthy, successful reef and marine tanks using strong flow through the sump.

FWIW, the Beananimal OF system is AWESOME! There, I said it again.

Well my new clownfish are sick so I'm going to read up on curing them now.

[Zoaelite]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

Whenever I see this statement written it always means the same thing. you simply do not believe it and your way is the best way and you cannot prove it, you have been offered a number of alternatives with proof yet you want us to believe you rather than have a civil discussion, you are tired of trying to get us to believe that we are wrong.

I really do not care if we confuse people, I am sure if they ask the correct questions they will get the correct answers, and it isn't because we always did it that way.

Even if we confuse people then at least they start to think about it one poster even admitted that he tried something in blind faith and found it to be so good he tells everybody, until he tried it he simply did not believe it.

I answered an opening post about flow trough the sump, I answered with facts yet for some reason because it isn't not what you are doing then it is wrong.

I did call skimmer manufactures, many of them and was given the same answer, over sizing the skimmer or giving the skimmer more water than it requires is a absolute waste of money.

Are you technically not doing the exact same thing? Stir crazy has spent hours on his posts and his examples do have some relevancy but you have shot them down each and every time because you believe you are right...

After reading all of this I can quite clearly see that the gentlemen from Toronto have there facts strait. In there FIFO sump model I'm positive you could achieve higher skimmer efficiency, but lets face it folks the simple truth about it is that very few people have set up there tanks to be FIFO style...
If your tank is not set up to be FIFO lowering your turn over to 1X is useless as you're not filtering all of the water. As Mike has pointed out this is all theoretical, there are so many different variables in the equation to the perfect skimmer its redundant to argue back and forth.

Its funny that this article was posted "http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature" as it actually downplays the importance of a skimmer in the reef setting:

"None of the skimmers tested removed more than 35% of the extant TOC, leading to the conclusion that bubbles are really not a very effective medium for organic nutrient removal."

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by zoaElite

Its funny that this article was posted "http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature" as it actually downplays the importance of a skimmer in the reef setting:

If you read carefully I never mentioned FIFO, do not put words into my mouth.

Funny you should mention the article, did you read it? did you see how the tests were done?

Do you see what "Q " represents and what the values were?

[Zoaelite]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

If you read carefully I never mentioned FIFO, do not put words into my mouth.

Funny you should mention the article, did you read it? did you see how the tests were done?

Do you see what "Q " represents and what the values were?

My comment was not directed to you, when I said the "Gentlemen in Toronto" I should of said the "Gentlemen in Toronto here for a discussion and not personal attacks". This will be my actual final post, for the original poster I apologize if this got off topic but you sure have a fun 11 page read .
Levi

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by zoaElite

My comment was not directed to you, when I said the "Gentlemen in Toronto" I should of said the "Gentlemen in Toronto here for a discussion and not personal attacks". This will be my actual final post, for the original poster I apologize if this got off topic but you sure have a fun 11 page read .
Levi

I will ask a question again, did you read the link that you posted?

This never got of topic, I responded to the OP and you decided to make it an issue

Originally Posted by zoaElite

This will be my actual final post,

Whenever I see this statement written it always means the same thing. you simply do not believe it and your way is the best way and you cannot prove it, you have been offered a number of alternatives with proof yet you want us to believe you rather than have a civil discussion, you are tired of trying to get us to believe that we are wrong

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by zoaElite

My comment was not directed to you, when I said the "Gentlemen in Toronto" I should of said the "Gentlemen in Toronto here for a discussion and not personal attacks". This will be my actual final post, for the original poster I apologize if this got off topic but you sure have a fun 11 page read .
Levi

Just one more thought, there are many here from Toronto or surrounding areas, please do not make this a geographical argument.

Paul

[kien]

So what's the verdict? How many times per hour should the water go through the sump??

[golf nut]

1.567832

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

I really do not care if we confuse people, I am sure if they ask the correct questions they will get the correct answers, and it isn't because we always did it that way.

.

you should care. personaly I like to help people and I will try make things as simple as posable if thats what is needed. I never do things because "we always did it that way" if we did I would still be using VHO bulbs and under gravel filters. I do think there are a lot of "snake oil" products out there that are a short cut for people who don't set tanks up properly or tank the time to mature there tanks. there is also a lot of products that prey on or desire for the "easy way" or "quick fix" do some of them work.. ya sure, are they needed .. no. so is some of my thinking old fashion.. ya maybe, do I stay with them because we have always done it that way, Hell no I stay with them because they work.

Steve