Frogfish + sandbed yes or no?

[Rogue951]

why would you want to euthanize the frogfish, it's a great species and not a common thing.
If he wanted to get rid of it then find another reefer willing to keep it.
Having the frogfish eat the damsels for food is a much better use of... the food chain than just killing the frogfish and throwing it away...
but this starts going into ethics.
to each their own. I have no problems with the food chain and one animal eating another.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by Rogue951

why would you want to euthanize the frogfish, it's a great species and not a common thing.
If he wanted to get rid of it then find another reefer willing to keep it.
Having the frogfish eat the damsels for food is a much better use of... the food chain than just killing the frogfish and throwing it away...
but this starts going into ethics.
to each their own. I have no problems with the food chain and one animal eating another.

I agree to each their own. Rather than being burdened with the ethical issue she has with feeding baby damsals she should just let her friend deal with it.

[fishoholic]

Just so you know I really want the frogfish and am looking forward to getting it. Also I've had too many devil damsels to value their lives over that of a frogfish.

However I don't like the idea of the frogfish eating damsels but on the other hand that is kinda how the food chain works and really is it that much different then me eating steak or pork? No not really, the only difference is I didn't kill the animal myself, however that doesn't stop me from eating it.

That being said of course I'm going to try my hardest to get the frogfish eating frozen and not live. I figure if I can fill him up on frozen then hopefully he'll leave the damsels alone. I'm bringing him home tonight so we'll see what happens.

[karazy]

in my opinion the best way to ween frogfish from live to prepared is the least ethical, but most effective.
what you do is take the damsels out and throw them in a sump or something for later .
then you dont feed your frogfish for about 2 weeks (make sure he has eaten recently before you do this.)
then you take one of the damsels and you grab it by the tail.
still usuing your hand to hold the damsel, slow put it closer to the frogfish.
one it gets close enough wiggle the damsel a little and 9 times out of ten the frogfish will take it.
if this doesnt work after about 20 minutes of trying just let the damsel go so that the frogfish can hunt it normalyand so that it gets a meal in it and try again in 2 weeks.
this teaches it a few things.
1)to eat when food is available, not just at their leasure
2)to get used to feeding aparatuses
3)to eat as much as they can when they can.

once you have done thing a few times succesfully you can try prepared foods.
the best feeding stick ive seen by far would be a piece of acryilic rod with a small length of 40 lb. (or larger) fishing line on the edthat you can push through whatever you are feeding(krill, silversides, ect)

now take the food on your feeding stick or tongs or whatever you have chosen to use (the stick works best imo, even without the fishing line it works pretty well) and put it in the tank about 4"-6" away from the frogfish, wiggling it in the water.
at this point your frogfish should have moved a little towards the prepared food.
now slowely move the food closer to the frogfish, wiggling the whole time.
now wiggle it right in front of him, (moving it side to side a little bit can help too) and he should eventualy take the prepared foods.
if hedoes not take the food try again the next day, but again make sure he gets a meal atleast once every two weeks while weening.

hope this helps.

[s.tan]

Just wanted to re-emphasis a point that Karazy made in one of his statements.

Originally Posted by karazy

...then you take one of the damsels and you grab it by the tail.

When you start feeding whole dead fish, its easier to hold the fish by the head with the tongs. It may also seem that when you wiggle it, the tail action looks more inviting! In my experience, I've even ended up slapping the face of the frogfish with the tail of the tail of the food fish, trying to get the frogfish interested enough to attack. What I've learned ... and should have known ... is that frogfish are ambush predators. Therefore, they will target the head region of their prey. Duh! As soon as I switched it around, the frogfish attacked and ate.

[karazy]

here's an awesome article on predator feeding by one of the best predator based hobbiests in north america:
http://www.lionfishlair.com/feedingt...thetrade.shtml

[bowkry]

I have a frog fish tank and I find some large crushed rubble in the bottom is great he can walk around lots, not too too much rock I find when you feed him the less rock the more often you will get to see him eat. I also feed mine gold fish (I know its not the best but they are cheap) Starve him for a week then put in a bright gold fish and you will see him eat. Also when he has his hod out that means he is hunting. Plus run a huge skimmer they poop lots. My frog fish is about 6 in and eats 3 large goldfish a week, Its great to watch. I tried feeding him cromis's but he ate one and one is still in the tank 2 months later.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by karazy

here's an awesome article on predator feeding by one of the best predator based hobbiests in north america:
http://www.lionfishlair.com/feedingt...thetrade.shtml

great article thanks.

[Marlin65]

Originally Posted by fishoholic

Just so you know I really want the frogfish and am looking forward to getting it. Also I've had too many devil damsels to value their lives over that of a frogfish.

However I don't like the idea of the frogfish eating damsels but on the other hand that is kinda how the food chain works and really is it that much different then me eating steak or pork? No not really, the only difference is I didn't kill the animal myself, however that doesn't stop me from eating it.

That being said of course I'm going to try my hardest to get the frogfish eating frozen and not live. I figure if I can fill him up on frozen then hopefully he'll leave the damsels alone. I'm bringing him home tonight so we'll see what happens.

You know that frozen is just like steak or pork it has already been killed and packaged.
Its a meat eater so either way something has to die.
What about those poor silversides.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by Marlin65

You know that frozen is just like steak or pork it has already been killed and packaged.
Its a meat eater so either way something has to die.
What about those poor silversides.

Yes Marlin you are right and that is why the comparison is simply a justification.
Personally, I will spend more money QT ing and medicating a little green chromis damsal with a little fungus on it than what the little guy cost me.

It troubles me as a reefer to see other reefers feed them to other marine fish just as it troubles me to see them used to cycle a tank.

But, like earlier posted, to each their own.