Do you think Im ready for a Mandarin?

[Eb0la11]

Yeah there are lots of pods. I dunno what "lots" is compared to other tanks, but I see them all the time and I see clouds of the larvae swimming in my fuge.

The rock I just bought was 2 years established in another reefers tank and that was 50 lbs worth. The other 70 was from golds/pisces a 10 lb piece and then the rest from another reefer but I think it was average at best.

Pods can grow in my fuge, but it doesnt fall back into the DT with gravity. They would have to go through the pump. Would this kill them? Maybe not the small larvae, but the older ones, probably?

[sphelps]

I'm not sure I see much point in staying up all night counting bugs on the glass but that's just me. I've always found mandarins very easy to care for and provided you've got enough established rock you should be fine, the problem is there survival rate isn't that good but it's related to reasons other than starvation. If you really want to look into it then you can check out this thread on another site:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1492650

[naesco]

Originally Posted by sphelps

I'm not sure I see much point in staying up all night counting bugs on the glass but that's just me. I've always found mandarins very easy to care for and provided you've got enough established rock you should be fine, the problem is there survival rate isn't that good but it's related to reasons other than starvation. If you really want to look into it then you can check out this thread on another site:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1492650

Sorry but Mandarins are certainly not easy to care for. Most starve because the reefer is unable to provide a suitable environment for them that includes.

1. a mature tank (9 months) with an established population of pods.
2. a tank large enough to ensure that the new population of pods keeps up with the pods that are eaten by the mandarin. A reefer can add a refugium fed with phyto that supercharges the production of pods. When you observe them they are constantly searching for food.
3. Many reefers have gobies and wrasse that compete with the mandarins for the same food.


All mandarins are caught with cyanide because they scoot into the rocks when the divers come near. By far the majority will die immediately or within hours of their capture from the cyanide poison, but some will survive transport and die in the LFS or reefers tanks.
A tiny few are caught by MAC certified divers who use a very thin two pronged device to spear the mandarin. Apparently it does not harm them.

[marie]

I have had 5 mandarins over the years, 1 jumped, 1 died in my marine velvet incident after being in my care for 4 yrs, and I still have 3 that I have had for at least a year. 4 out of the 5 eat/ate mysis (the female I have now still doesn't) but it did take 2 of them over a year to figure out that mysis was food

From my experience I have to agree with sphelps....they are quite easy to care for

[Eb0la11]

Ive been designing my system to be adequate for a mandarin since day 1 with refugium, lots of live rock and the availability of pods and I think I will be able to make it work. I'll try to find one that accepts live food, but if not I'll do my due diligence to make sure the little guy is taken care of. Dont worry.

[mike31154]

I am still in the go for it camp. As you've mentioned the rock you have comes largely from previously established systems and there should be plenty of food for a small mandarin. I've never been able to see the pods my mandarins peck at they are so small, so I also see no point in observing what's crawling around after lights out. Sure there are risks, any new fish can become a casualty for one reason or another. I've tried to back up my reasoning with personal experience and I see there are at least two other posters with positive first hand experiences as well. I have two healthy mandarins in a 77 gallon sumpless tank and you have a 165 with refugium and sump! That's more than twice the size of my system. I've not needed to supercharge the pod population nor have I set up any pod condos. None of the posters advising against getting one have validated their advice with personal experience. I may be wrong and if I am, apologize, but it appears some of this advice is based on second or third party information.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by mike31154

. None of the posters advising against getting one have validated their advice with personal experience. I may be wrong and if I am, apologize, but it appears some of this advice is based on second or third party information.

hmm nice asumption, but wrong. I had two of them in my tank a male and femail and one lived for 4 years the other for 5. neither ate prepared food, and contrary to Marie's that is a rarity. seeign she is so lucky I would recomend she go buy a powerball ticket

as for looking to see whats running around at nigh.. thats a waist of time, if you can see pods during the day you should figure out how to get more in your tank. it isn't the big ones they eat, but rather the babbys and different types.. but seeing pods scurring about your tank is a good indacator of the overall helth of your tanks bug population.

now alot of poeple saying go for it are not qualntifying there answers, are you listing what you had for a tank, what fish were in it? did you have 4 other fish that are direct competers for food in the tank?

ok enough of that. what can you do to improve you chances..

1, get rid of the golbies. but not a good solution for most.

2, build pod piles, very easy to do and cheep. just break down old live rock into 1-2" chunks and make big piles of this rubble behind your rocks. the size of the rocks has to be big enough that there is lots of nooks and crannys but small enough that preditory fish can not get in the structure. this gives the pods a safe haven breading ground. I had 4 of these about 2" wide, 6 inches long and 8" high behind the rock in my 94gal.

other than the food issue I find mandrins a very hardy fish and I will always have one in my tanks over 50 gal, but the tanks needs to be able to provide for them unless you have the holy grail of mandrins like Marie.

Steve

[naesco]

Originally Posted by mike31154

I am still in the go for it camp. As you've mentioned the rock you have comes largely from previously established systems and there should be plenty of food for a small mandarin. I've never been able to see the pods my mandarins peck at they are so small, so I also see no point in observing what's crawling around after lights out. Sure there are risks, any new fish can become a casualty for one reason or another. I've tried to back up my reasoning with personal experience and I see there are at least two other posters with positive first hand experiences as well. I have two healthy mandarins in a 77 gallon sumpless tank and you have a 165 with refugium and sump! That's more than twice the size of my system. I've not needed to supercharge the pod population nor have I set up any pod condos. None of the posters advising against getting one have validated their advice with personal experience. I may be wrong and if I am, apologize, but it appears some of this advice is based on second or third party information.

My advice is based on personal experience. In addition I have been on this board and several other boards for many, many years and have read countless thread posted by reefers asking.
My mandarin is not eating what do I feed it?
My mandarin is emaciated what could be the problem? and than
My mandarin is missing?

You posted that "there are risks, any new fish can become a casualty for one reason or another". Starvation is an avoidable risk.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by naesco

Sorry but Mandarins are certainly not easy to care for. Most starve because the reefer is unable to provide a suitable environment for them that includes.

All mandarins are caught with cyanide because they scoot into the rocks when the divers come near. By far the majority will die immediately or within hours of their capture from the cyanide poison, but some will survive transport and die in the LFS or reefers tanks.
A tiny few are caught by MAC certified divers who use a very thin two pronged device to spear the mandarin. Apparently it does not harm them.

That first statement isn't that accurate, but the second statement is more likely. Mandarins rarely die of starvation due to lack of food, the reasons some don't make it is related more to the second statement (but I wouldn't say all), many simply don't hunt or eat once introduced. Providing food for mandarins is one of the easiest things in reefing, you said it yourself all you just need mature rock, I'm not sure what's so complicated or difficult about that.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by sphelps

That first statement isn't that accurate, but the second statement is more likely. Mandarins rarely die of starvation due to lack of food, the reasons some don't make it is related more to the second statement (but I wouldn't say all), many simply don't hunt or eat once introduced. Providing food for mandarins is one of the easiest things in reefing, you said it yourself all you just need mature rock, I'm not sure what's so complicated or difficult about that.

but it is the largest reason they die.. starvation. it isn't that we can't provide food, it is weather we can provide enough, with out compatition for that food. mandrins are slow eaters, and take a while to eat a bunch of bugs.. wrases, golbies, ect with go through them in minits. so normaly it is the compatition that causes them to starve. also you wouldn't believe how many people have no bugs in there tanks. they are the easiest thing in the world to grow but also for some reason the hardest.

ask Brad how many worms he has in his tank

Steve