"What if"

[Myka]

I use commerically prepared calcium and alkalinity buffer, but I do use Littlesilvermax's 8.5:1 magnesium mix.

I wouldn't use plain magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) permanently on my tank. I would only use it in an emergency or if I was using it against Bryopsis where the sulfate is needed. Magnesium chloride should make up the bulk of the magnesium dosing.

I have always found that commercially prepared chemicals work better in my reefs than bulk chemicals. I can't explain why. I notice no difference using a magnesium mix though. I also can't explain why. I know I don't get.

I know there have been discussions on various boards in the last while regarding ionic imbalance from dosing too many products/chemicals with chloride in them which increases chloride too much in our tanks. Of course our test kits and refractometers don't know the difference so we think our dosing or salinity levels are correct. There are vendors coming out now with chloride-free salts.

Also, fyi these days when people say "salts" they may be referring to balling salts. Magnesium chloride, calcium chloride, sodium (bi)carbonate are all salts. So be sure you understand whether the person is referring to a salt mix or balling salts.

Originally Posted by lastlight

That thread came off as the sort of scare-tactics news you see on FOX or something. While I found it amusing I thought it was pretty silly it was closed by the author after 2 people posted.

Agreed.

[StirCrazy]

there are valid points both ways, but I didn't like the article Aqua Digital wrote as it was scare tactics. RHF has done testing on several chemicals we can find in department stores, some are good for frequent use, some for occasional and some for emergency's. as for Vodka dosing I personally think it is stupid and alcohol abuse should go in the belly not the tank

I do like the custom products for there purity and convenience for setting up a custom blend, but the prices are outrageous on a lot of them. One thing you do have to watch out for is products containing sulfates, using them to much will build up the sulfate level in your tank which isn't good. there have been several studies over the years on the build up of heavy metals, sulfates ect and the problem comes from a lot of the "department" store products we try use are not 100% pure so in the short term they don't hurt, but in the long term depending on what ones you are using and how much you may get build up of undesirable chemicals.

so I go both ways on this debate, I feel the manufactures of these products could easily drop there price in 1/2 and then the merchants and so on which would still get them a profit and make them much more affordable resulting in more people using them and probably more profit made through volume sales, but until then people will continue to look for lower cost alternatives.

Myself, I am the king of cheapness when it comes to stuff like this, I even did experiments using dolomite as a DSB and would have used it but it compacted into a rock hard bed so it was not suitable, but I do like the convenience and preciseness of the balling system, and there are also somethings I don't cheep out on anymore and it they are related to water chemistry and light then I spend the extra. now I don't mean that I will run out and buy the most expensive lighting fixture thinking I have the best set up, what I mean is I do my research and make sure I am getting exactly what I am looking for. If it doesn't meet up to my demands I will build my own.

Steve

[shrimpchips]

I'll chime in since I use the Fauna Marin salts and the whole balling system.

I thought about using DIY salts, but the purity issues had me stay away from them. In a small system, if I do encounter any impurities, they can quickly build up an become very detrimental. Also, I too like the fact that they are pure, easy to use and I have some ease of mind knowing they're from a quality company and brand.

As for DIY, I strongly considered it, but the first thing that got me was the impurities that might be present in DIY salts. Also, you have to make a lot larger batch of balling salts with DIY since they are a lot less pure than the brand-name salts. Space is a premium to me, and I don't want to have to make a batch every few weeks.

For me the decision also came down to the fact that I had already spent hundreds, if not thousands on corals - I wasn't about to save $50 and possibly put things in harms way. For me, I just don't trust something made for the sidewalk and driveway for my SPS reef tank, which I've already invested heavily in.

As for the price of these chemicals, pure chemicals are expensive, and driveway quality melting salts aren't exactly pure. In the end I think it comes down to how comfortable you are with the unknowns associated with icemelting salts, and how much extra you're willing to shell out for the brand-name salts.

[fkshiu]

Originally Posted by shrimpchips

For me, I just don't trust something made for the sidewalk and driveway for my SPS reef tank, which I've already invested heavily in.

There's always the happy middle ground from those such as BRS and littlesilvermax - high quality stuff at lower prices - sort of like the "No Name Brand" products from the supermarket. I had complete confidence using those bulk chemicals in my tank that I have invested heavily in as well.

I found AquaDigital's posting to be insulting in the extreme, IMHO. According to him, I might as well have been pouring radioactive fallout into my tank when I was using two-part.

[lastlight]

Plus I heard DOW puts antiReef crystals into its new mix.

[Oceanic]

Originally Posted by lastlight

Plus I heard DOW puts antiReef crystals into its new mix.

LOL, actually... Dow did change their process that leaves fairly higher levels of bromide in their calcium flake. This has now proven to be a non issue in tanks with regular water changes...

[lastlight]

Originally Posted by Oceanic

LOL, actually... Dow did change their process that leaves fairly higher levels of bromide in their calcium flake. This has now proven to be a non issue in tanks with regular water changes...

Lol yeah I know. I like most others who use or plan to use BRS or LSM...we've read the chemistry forums on RC. We've seen expert testimony and proof through their use. DIY supplements can and do work.

A brown bucket doesn't mean much to me. My Reef Crystals always used to leave the same thing in my bucket.

Plus check out the blue carpet. I call 20k bulb cover-up or photoshop conspiracy! Colors can't be trusted!

[Tom R]

I have been dosing DIY salts for a number of years and yes like anyone in this hobby I would not put anything into my system if I thought it would harm it.

My system is 525G, many of my friends have systems that are between 250G and 500G. The product sold in our LFS has been packaged to sell at $10 to $20. This is fine for those who have systems of 75G or less.
The bulk of the cost in a $20 350g bottle of balling salts sold at a LFS is the cost of packaging and the 2 or 3 markups included to get the product to market. The cost of the balling salt itself is the least expensive part of the price.
If the manufactures made a bulk product available to the larger system owners maybe more of us would buy their products.

Tom R

[iansfishy]

I think what Aquadigital was saying was that the FM products are made exclusively for the reef, whereas DOW and arm and hammer are not. I believe that thread had been started because I had PM'ed Aqua Digital stating that I had run out of the FM sodium carbonate, and had been using Arm and Hammer as a substitute until I could get some more Of the FM product. And if he had known of anyone reporting ill effects using the balling method and Arm and hammer as a substitute. The problem being that im not in any hurry to purchase the FM product because it is $20.00 per kg as oppossed to $1.85 for arm and hammer. I have not noticed any ill effects using the Arm and hammer, but I agree slightly with aquadigital in given the choice I would rather use reef specific products but at what price? Not at 10x the price!
In the defence of Fauna marin however i have never had any "brown water" as the Dow will produce, BUT I am always looking for a cheaper substitute. I just cant get over the price of the product, and I agree with others saying that making the product affordable would defianetly help, but I dont make the product, and dont know the cost to produce the prodcut so who am I to say. I believe that the FM salts are pure with additional trace elements added by FM which could be the reason for the cost. Aquadigital has always been very helpful for me and I can see his points. He is simply saying that if your not using the products designed for "balling" your not really doing the balling method. He was making statements about a product he stands behind. As for people who are simply making their own salts with Dow and other cheaper products, and not doing the balling method I dont think he cares. Just my two cents. But what about the products from Littlesilvermax, will they substitute for the FM product?

[Oceanic]

Originally Posted by iansfishy

I think what Aquadigital was saying was that the FM products are made exclusively for the reef, whereas DOW and arm and hammer are not. I believe that thread had been started because I had PM'ed Aqua Digital stating that I had run out of the FM sodium carbonate, and had been using Arm and Hammer as a substitute until I could get some more Of the FM product. And if he had known of anyone reporting ill effects using the balling method and Arm and hammer as a substitute. The problem being that im not in any hurry to purchase the FM product because it is $20.00 per kg as oppossed to $1.85 for arm and hammer. I have not noticed any ill effects using the Arm and hammer, but I agree slightly with aquadigital in given the choice I would rather use reef specific products but at what price? Not at 10x the price!
In the defence of Fauna marin however i have never had any "brown water" as the Dow will produce, BUT I am always looking for a cheaper substitute. I just cant get over the price of the product, and I agree with others saying that making the product affordable would defianetly help, but I dont make the product, and dont know the cost to produce the prodcut so who am I to say. I believe that the FM salts are pure with additional trace elements added by FM which could be the reason for the cost. Aquadigital has always been very helpful for me and I can see his points. He is simply saying that if your not using the products designed for "balling" your not really doing the balling method. He was making statements about a product he stands behind. As for people who are simply making their own salts with Dow and other cheaper products, and not doing the balling method I dont think he cares. Just my two cents. But what about the products from Littlesilvermax, will they substitute for the FM product?

I am not saying that he posted that with the intention of only pushing his product or business. I just have an issue with bad articles or advice.