A dying question?

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by kien

This line struck me.. so your tank in theory could have been less than 2 months old? That's a pretty new tank. Did you start it up from scratch? If so, that is a VERY new tank. New tanks like that can be unstable and even after the cycle has completed need a little while longer to get its groove/stabilize/balance out etc..

In the first two months anything from adding too much fish to doing too much water change can throw the tanks balance off. You really do have to be careful in the first few months.

Did you set up your bathtub with brand new fresh saltwater ? They could have been stressed over a chemical imbalance due to the water change AND rock movement (potentially releasing chemicals), and then throwing them into a tub of newly mixed saltwater did them in. Anyway, that would be my theory.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

yes the tank was newish (half old half new) and the tank cycled in 3 days (did not believe it my self but ???).
yes the bathtub was all new for if something was in the water I wanted to try to give them a fighting chance for they did not look good in the tank at all.

I never thought about stress or anything by moving the rock around.
would doing a water change changing or rock movment that has affected the chemical balance not show on tests though?

[shimmy]

well i do keep my condo cleen and it was a clean bucket in the bath tub (I should have described that all better)
the clowns showed better sines after the move but did not make the night.

[shimmy]

I will move on and try harder to prevent things in the future from happining and you are correct one little thing can start another little thing intill problems start, it would just be nice to know what little thing it was.

thanks everyone for your input on what it could have been.

[Binare]

The little thing is obvious, new tank barely cycled with way too much stuff in it. Then a quick dump in a much much colder chemical, dirt and soap infested bathtub. I'd be more surprised if anything lived.

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by Binare

The little thing is obvious, new tank barely cycled with way too much stuff in it. Then a quick dump in a much much colder chemical, dirt and soap infested bathtub. I'd be more surprised if anything lived.

well the tank is cycled and I know that when too much to fast is added it can be found with testing usually (nitrate...) and nothing new has been added in days and the last thing added was the clowns (babies) last weekend.

If there is more to cycling then watching the chemical levels rise and fall back and forth till there is no more change even after adding new stuff then I need to know more.

also the temp that I moved them too was the same as what they come from I admit it was not cycled water or fully chemical treated but what you do in a situation like so?

what I put them into was CLEAN and they did just fine for the couple of hours I was up with them.

[kien]

Originally Posted by shimmy

If there is more to cycling then watching the chemical levels rise and fall back and forth till there is no more change even after adding new stuff then I need to know more.

There are two answers to this cycling question, the one that people want to hear, "cycling can be done in a few weeks", and the one that people don't want to hear, or choose to ignore (with varying degrees of success). While in theory a tank starts and can end its cycle within a few weeks, I personally would not consider it cycled, others may disagree. While the ammonia-nitrogen cycle enables fish and other living things to live in the tank without those toxic chemicals, this does not necessarily mean that the tank is finished with the FULL cycle in my opinion.

This is where the second and less favourable answer comes in. The FULL cycle can take up to a year. More things continue to go on in the tank after the initial cycle. For example, silicon and phosphates from live rock and sand are slowly released. This stage is where we tend to see algae and diatom blooms. The presence of these nuisances are an indication that you have silicates and or phosphates. This is where the tank is really JUST starting to balance itself out, as stuff leaches out, they are consumed by nuisance algaes until they are eventually and hopefully depleted. All the while, your bacterial culture is trying to keep up with your bioload (feedings, poops, pees, etc). The act of feeding can also throw chemicals into your tank. It can be quite a turbulent time for the tank. The more fish/critters, the more stress you add which the tank needs to account for. This is why everyone says, "take it slow". Give your tank and everyone in your tank time to adjust.

Anyway, not meaning to sound like a know it all (because trust me, I'm far from knowing it all! :-D ).. just sharing my experience with my tanks and cycling over the years. There will surely be other opinions on the matter.

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by kien

There are two answers to this cycling question, the one that people want to hear, "cycling can be done in a few weeks", and the one that people don't want to hear, or choose to ignore (with varying degrees of success). While in theory a tank starts and can end its cycle within a few weeks, I personally would not consider it cycled, others may disagree. While the ammonia-nitrogen cycle enables fish and other living things to live in the tank without those toxic chemicals, this does not necessarily mean that the tank is finished with the FULL cycle in my opinion.

This is where the second and less favourable answer comes in. The FULL cycle can take up to a year. More things continue to go on in the tank after the initial cycle. For example, silicon and phosphates from live rock and sand are slowly released. This stage is where we tend to see algae and diatom blooms. The presence of these nuisances are an indication that you have silicates and or phosphates. This is where the tank is really JUST starting to balance itself out, as stuff leaches out, they are consumed by nuisance algaes until they are eventually and hopefully depleted. All the while, your bacterial culture is trying to keep up with your bioload (feedings, poops, pees, etc). The act of feeding can also throw chemicals into your tank. It can be quite a turbulent time for the tank. The more fish/critters, the more stress you add which the tank needs to account for. This is why everyone says, "take it slow". Give your tank and everyone in your tank time to adjust.

Anyway, not meaning to sound like a know it all (because trust me, I'm far from knowing it all! :-D ).. just sharing my experience with my tanks and cycling over the years. There will surely be other opinions on the matter.

ok so im starting to understand more about this. the LPS that I go to informed me of only the first one and not the second one and everywhere I read nothing talks about why you need to go slow when there is no problems. when it does talk about going slow it only talks about watching the first cycle your tank goes through and not the second.

I know many people that took the slowes road (2months between fish even years after setup) and I know some that have added 4 fish the first 2 weeks they brought the box home.

I know im new to the SW world and trying to make it work and Im starting to feel even asking questions is not good enough unless you are asking the correct question but you got to know the correct question to got the correct answer.

[new but handy]

did I miss the part when you said how many fish? If there was 10 fish added in less than 2 months.SLOW DOWN. I don't think I added any fish for 3 months then I added 1 a month

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by new but handy

did I miss the part when you said how many fish? If there was 10 fish added in less than 2 months.SLOW DOWN. I don't think I added any fish for 3 months then I added 1 a month

yes you did miss that part, I did have 4 fish

[argan]

did you have airation in the bucket after you moved them?