Swine Flu/H1N1 Vaccination - Yes or No?

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

then the side effects!...

These are exactly the same potential side effects from any vaccine ever made. The risk profile is the same. So you're either okay with vaccines in general or you're not. The vast majority of people will have no side effects or at most soreness at the injections site. Some people will feel a bit ill with aches and pains or headaches or nausea etc. This is probably from your immune system ramping up to produce antibodies due to the vaccine.

The uncommon side effects are very rare and do not generally even happen 1 in a 1000.

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

what concerns me chemically: Thimerosal, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, squalene.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squalene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysorbate_80
or call the company or the people administering the vaccine and ask:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4O8beEBxdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QKNhgdno10

Do you really believe everything you see on youtube or read on wikipedia? Wikipedia is notoriously inaccurate because anybody from the public can go on there and write or edit content.

Those youtube videos are ridiculous and again are a product of fear and ignorance. The vaccine does not contain elemental mercury or organomercury compounds. Thimerosal has low toxicity and is rapidly excreted from your body anyhow. You need to go back and read my earlier post.

The amount of these components is tiny and well below any level that will cause toxicity. There is less mercury in a shot of vaccine then in a can of tuna (which incidently is in the more toxic organomercury form). If you are that concerned about mercury you better not eat fish anymore.

Squalene is a common ingredient in moisturizing lotions and is also safe unless you take in huge amounts. Trace amounts of formaldehyde means barely detectable in the vaccine. Your own body probably produces more formaldehyde through your own metabolism then you will find in the vaccine and has mechanisms to deal with and excrete it. One thing people need to realize is that pretty much everything and anything is toxic. It all depends on how much you are exposed to. The small amounts of these compounds found in the vaccine are not toxic. I REPEAT, NOT TOXIC.

Sorry to yell but the FUDD being generated around this vaccine is really starting to annoy me. Those youtube videos are nothing but an uninformed layperson panicking over something he clearly does not understand.

While H1N1 is currently not the most deadly flu ever, it is more serious then the normal seasonal flu. It IS causing the deaths of people who would not normally be considered at risk from regular seasonal flu and it IS more dangerous to those with other underlying medical conditions.

My bigger worry is that the more people infected and the more it spreads, the greater the chance it could mutate into an even more virulent and deadly strain. Large scale vaccination can help prevent that.

I think I need to make a youtube video about how H1N1 is going to mutate and kill us all and therefore we all need to be vaccinated

[FitoPharmer]

Your right 4000-8000 is pretty meager....until it's your own 13 yr old, otherwise healthy, son/daughter that dies from something as mild as the flu

again million die yearly due to things that are more preventable then h1n1. so i guess at that point i would have to weigh the price of my son/daughter's life against someone else's son/daughter's life.....

Do you really believe everything you see on youtube or read on wikipedia? Wikipedia is notoriously inaccurate because anybody from the public can go on there and write or edit content.

whats the difference between what you say and Wikipedia? bring me some facts bro. your just saying things. not to say they arnt true. i would just like to know your sources on these things:

here is less mercury in a shot of vaccine then in a can of tuna

H1N1 is currently not the most deadly flu ever, it is more serious then the normal seasonal flu

the small amounts of these compounds found in the vaccine are not toxic. I REPEAT, NOT TOXIC.

more people infected and the more it spreads, the greater the chance it could mutate into an even more virulent and deadly strain. Large scale vaccination can help prevent that.

Trace amounts of formaldehyde means barely detectable in the vaccine. Your own body probably produces more formaldehyde through your own metabolism then you will find in the vaccine and has mechanisms to deal with and excrete it.

i was listening to the news yesterday and it said you had about a 1 in 250 thousand chance to get killed by h1n1 in Canada. or:
"Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 1000 doses):
• Allergic reactions leading to a dangerous decrease of blood pressure, which, if untreated, may lead to shock. Doctors are aware of this possibility and have emergency treatment available for use in such cases
• Fits
• Severe stabbing or throbbing pain along one or more nerves
• Low blood platelet count which can result in bleeding or bruising
Very Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 10,000 doses):
• Vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels which can cause skin rashes, joint pain and kidney problems)
• Neurological disorders such as encephalomyelitis (inflammation of the central nervous system), neuritis (inflammation of nerves) and a type of paralysis known a Guillain-Barré Syndrome"
from this vaccine.

lets line the pockets of big pharma some more..... how many doctors will give hard core Amphetamine's and such to children these days? so i don't know how much trust i can put in the medical system anymore.

[FitoPharmer]

These are exactly the same potential side effects from any vaccine ever made. The risk profile is the same. So you're either okay with vaccines in general or you're not. The vast majority of people will have no side effects or at most soreness at the injections site. Some people will feel a bit ill with aches and pains or headaches or nausea etc. This is probably from your immune system ramping up to produce antibodies due to the vaccine.

The uncommon side effects are very rare and do not generally even happen 1 in a 1000.

what exactly are you talking about? even on the GSK site it says their vaccines contain different additives, and not too surprisingly different side effects. some are more or less dangerous, but it seems evident that the h1n1 is more dangerous then the average booster shot your child gets.
check out the ingredients and side effects of just these few, none seem even similar:
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/T...0080916_EN.pdf
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/I...0080718_EN.pdf
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/P...0081103_EN.pdf
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/B...0091021_EN.pdf

where do you get the notion that every vaccine is the same and always will be?

[pinhead]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

here's GlaxoSmithKline's own product fact sheet,
please read:
http://preventdisease.com/news/pdf/G...tober_2009.pdf
"List of Excipients
Antigen suspension vial: Thimerosal, sodium chloride, disodium hydrogen phosphate, potassium dihydrogen phosphate, potassium chloride, water for injections. The drug substance contains trace residual amounts of egg proteins, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate and sucrose.
Adjuvant emulsion vial: sodium chloride, disodium hydrogen phosphate, potassium dihydrogen phosphate, potassium chloride, water for injections."

then down near the bottom
"What the important nonmedicinal ingredients are:
Thimerosal,a mercury derivative is added as preservative. Each dose contains 2.5 micrograms of mercury. Other ingredients include: squalene, vitamin E, polysorbate 80 and trace amounts of egg proteins, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate and sucrose."

then the side effects!
"As with all medicines, AREPANRIX™ H1N1can cause side effects. The very common and common side effects are usually mild and should only last a day or two.
Very common (may occur with more than 1 in 10 doses):
• Pain at the injection site
• Headache
• Fatigue
• Redness or swelling at the injection site
• Shivering
• Sweating
• Aching muscles, joint pain
Common (may occur with up to 1 in 10 doses):
• Reactions at the injection site such as bruising, itching and warmth
• Fever
• Swollen lympth nodes
• Feeling sick, diarrhea
Uncommon (may occur with up to 1 in 100 doses):
• Dizziness
• Generally feeling unwell
• Unusual weakness
• Vomiting, stomach pain, uncomfortable feeling in the stomach or belching after eating
• Inability to sleep
• Tingling or numbness of the hands or feet
• Shortness of breath
• Pain in the chest
• Itching, rash
• Pain in the back or neck, stiffness in the muscles, muscle spasms, pain in extremity such as leg or hand
Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 1000 doses):
• Allergic reactions leading to a dangerous decrease of blood pressure, which, if untreated, may lead to shock. Doctors are aware of this possibility and have emergency treatment available for use in such cases
• Fits
• Severe stabbing or throbbing pain along one or more nerves
• Low blood platelet count which can result in bleeding or bruising
Very Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 10,000 doses):
• Vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels which can cause skin rashes, joint pain and kidney problems)
• Neurological disorders such as encephalomyelitis (inflammation of the central nervous system), neuritis (inflammation of nerves) and a type of paralysis known a Guillain-Barré Syndrome
If any of these side effects occur, please tell your doctor or nurse immediately. If any of the side effects gets serious, or if you notice any side effects not listed in this leaflet, please
tell your doctor."

what concerns me chemically: Thimerosal, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, squalene.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squalene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysorbate_80
or call the company or the people administering the vaccine and ask:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4O8beEBxdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QKNhgdno10

....

Now we're getting a little off topic. This started out with people's real but uninformed fears of the vaccine to weird Libertarian conspiracy theories.

Look at the other Youtube videos by the posters of those 2 videos.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=STEVEDIGIBOYtv#g
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TFPCVideoBlog#g

TFPC is the Truth and Freedom Party of Canada
Here are some of their other ideas: http://tfpc.ca


I'm surprised they have not come up with some theory about the government and big pharma sending their UFO's to spread more flu virus in the spaceship's contrails.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by pinhead

Now we're getting a little off topic. This started out with people's real but uninformed fears of the vaccine to weird Libertarian conspiracy theories.

Conspiracies are not off topic since they are included in the poll. I'm still absolutely amazed at how many people find it that impossible to believe there is more to the world than they know. This is not a world of equals and never will be. Think of the Rothschild family.

Do people really think because they are scientists and can explain every ingredient in a vaccine, off a list that was provided to them, that it means everything is as it seems? I don't mean any disrespect and as I said earlier I don't necessarily think this one is a conspiracy but not everything can be explained in a lab.

Someone please explain to me how it is so impossible for a conspiracy to be possible?

[crysmom]

I would like to mention something about the mercury comments above- eating 50 micrograms of tuna is very different than injecting 5 micrograms. Your body has all sorts of systems in place to filter out toxins but when you chose to inject the toxins you are bypassing all of those "filter systems"

[marie]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Conspiracies are not off topic since they are included in the poll. I'm still absolutely amazed at how many people find it that impossible to believe there is more to the world than they know. This is not a world of equals and never will be. Think of the Rothschild family.

Do people really think because they are scientists and can explain every ingredient in a vaccine, off a list that was provided to them, that it means everything is as it seems? I don't mean any disrespect and as I said earlier I don't necessarily think this one is a conspiracy but not everything can be explained in a lab.

Someone please explain to me how it is so impossible for a conspiracy to be possible?

It's a man made product, why couldn't they explain every ingredient?

I keep an open mind about the stupid and evil things that the rich and powerful are capable of and nothing would really surprise but one has to use their common sense....Being powerful would be meaningless if you killed off all us little people

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by marie

It's a man made product, why couldn't they explain every ingredient?

I keep an open mind about the stupid and evil things that the rich and powerful are capable of and nothing would really surprise but one has to use their common sense....Being powerful would be meaningless if you killed off all us little people

Well in this case I agree that that list of ingredients is probably accurate but I just meant unless people are actually testing it themselves, who's to say the list they are getting is complete. Talk all you want about regulations and testing but there are ALWAYS ways around it.

I don't recall the percentage but its well above 50% and I think closer to 80% of large corporation CEO's show behavioral and emotional characteristics of psychopathy, meaning they show chronic disregard for ethical principles and antisocial behavior. I'm sure many other powerful people/families are no different. Being powerful often times means they do not care in any way, shape or form about the little people. I think the theory of wanting to kill all but 500, 000 million people is out there too but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true that someone or an organization wants it that way and thats my only point...its possible. Dont think it will ever happen.

It wasnt all that long ago there was a dictator who tried to establish a New Order in Europe and came VERY close to succeeding after occupying most of Europe, North Africa and parts of Asia. I dont think people like this are thinking too much about how many of the little guy survive.

But I also dont believe that swine flu or the vaccine are part of any conspiracy...I just dont see how conspiracies are so silly.

[VFX]

Originally Posted by pinhead

Now we're getting a little off topic. This started out with people's real but uninformed fears of the vaccine to weird Libertarian conspiracy theories.

Conspiracies are definitely not off topic. I started this thread & conspiracies very a part of it. This has been a great thread & I hope I'm not the only one to admit learning a thing or to from reading it.

I don't think you can use 'uninformed' as a blanket term to describe people's fears here. There are a lot of people out there who think it's actually the 'uninformed' who have no fear of the H1N1 vaccine.

Great that we have Ron here to provide real scientific answers but also, worrying that so many others ridicule the possibility that so many of us think that something doesn't seem right about the whole thing.

As GSP says, "how it is so impossible for a conspiracy to be possible?"

.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

i mean who would come to trust some person who comes to extort you every year?
ex⋅tor⋅tion
  /ɪkˈstɔrʃən/ [ik-stawr-shuhn]
–noun
1. an act or instance of extorting.
2. Law. the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.
3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers.
4. anything extorted.

So I guess you built and maintained all the roads you drive on? Pay for the police force so you're not murdered or robbed daily? Pay for the military so you're not working in a concentration camp? Pay for the doctors, hospitals and ambulances for broken bones, cancer, etc.? The endless social list goes on. Talk about thinking that the world owes you a living! The money isn't always spent wisely but all those essential services are there and available to all Canadians. Extortion would imply that you are getting nothing in return but you are just taking for granted everything you have in one of the best countries in the world. Our high standard of living doesn't come free. I bitch about taxes too but people need to stop and think about what hey are getting and also think of others being helped with disabilities or handicaps who would otherwise lead very short miserable lives. I am young, healthy and working and this group pays the most so it is easy to feel ripped off, but health and age change very quickly.