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#11
07-17-2009, 02:58 PM
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Diana, keep in mind that many warnings are given with good intent. I was warned that keeping purple anthias was near impossible. I'm an experienced aquarist with the ability to attempt meeting needs of anything they need. I got 4 dead anthias out of that test. so when someone says that "generally" something will die, it doesnt mean always, it means often enough to not risk killing something. If you're going to do it anyway, and it works, great. If it doesnt work, well, lesson learned, and don't try those again.
So if someone says they want to try a butterfly that 99 out of a 100 die, I think the warnings are warranted. Often the warnings come from those that have previously killed those very fish. I know if you post about wanting purple anthias, I'd warn against it. Now we hope that the warnings come in a tempered tone, but as you know, people are passionate about things, and that often comes through in a bad tone. I recall a facebook friend going on about a mistreated rottie, she was very passionate and you could see that in the tone  Remember, any negative comments are not because people don't like the poster, it's because they love the fish. Yes, they should maybe re-read then count to 10 before hitting submit, but that's in a perfect world. we were all new once, and we all killed things we we're warned to not attempt, and mostly we try to save others from that sad situation.
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Brad 
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#14
07-17-2009, 03:31 PM
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I appreciate the comment Myka, but I have already do not touch the tank for any other reason aside of feeding and maintenance. I have not added any any new fish or corals and have no plans to do so. The less I touch the tank the better. No more fish, no more corals, meaning no disease or or dangers to the tank. I learned first hand that if you add fish or corals you run a risk of bringing unwanted things into the tank. I lost all of my acros due to flatworms that were infesting a LFS tank. I did not have the experience to know what was happening until it was too late. I dips all corals in Revive, which was not strong enough to make a dent in the flatworms, and I did not see them, due to the epoxy and rock they are mounted on. They were hiding inside of it all, where I could not see them. Lesson learned, and I have no interst in replacing them, since my fish need the swimming space.
Three years is a very long time, but I have no doubts my fish will be fine. I don't know how long most fish live in captivity, and perhaps if all their needs are fulfilled they still may not live that long. In the future I may remove fish and rehome them if they start getting aggressive, which I have done already in the past. Keeping the peace is first and foremost with my tank, and I have no ich, and no unhappy fish. Since I am not adding anymore, I have peace and harmony which is the other most important thing I have discovered. I don't watch television, I watch my tank instead, so I know all of my fish like the back of my hand and know if something is not right. The best way to know my water quality is not from testing, since I must be colour blind, since I never really know what the results say. I watch my fish's breathing and motion and know if something is out of whack. My Pagoda cup is also a big thing to know how my water quality really is as well. Testing my water just sends uncertainty and distrust, so I don't do it anymore. However, I don't suggest it to newer people with new systems, until they know their fish and tanks as well as I know mine. I also don't expect the same results for other people as I have had with my tank. Each system is different in the end, and because I get away with things, does not mean others can. My only big issue I do have is that my puffer continues to eat snails whole, and ends up puffing up to cough them up. I was told this is stressful to them, but there is nothing I can do about it. It is an impossibility to remove all the snails, so I just hope he will be okay. So far it does not phase him, and perhaps it is a normal thing they do in the wild to align their pleats in their stomachs since there are so many. I know there are members that have had fish for years, even ones from the very start, so I don't feel I would be any different. I also have a very experienced reefer that just moved out to my neck of the woods. He set up his tank and left for vacation, and I am taking care of his tank, and he will take care of mine when I take off for holidays with my dogs and hubby. I won't have a holiday disaster when I get home, and if there is a problem I am a phone call away. My tank has been around long enough now that I do not need to change the water much, although I do a small one twice a week, just because I want to do it. I feel that if I have not killed my fish in a newly set up tank, the risk of doing so has lessened at least ten fold or more. I have found that the first six weeks is the most crucial part of bringing them into my system. My other success for this set up is the fact that I had bought over 250 pounds of live rock from a well established tank that was being shut down. I also added an additional 100 or more pounds of well established live rock from other shut downs. For me this was key in getting to where I needed to be. I added an additional 90g of water to the system for QT purposes that I could shut the water supply off of and run a skimmer, powerhead and heater when I needed to. I had a member come spend the night after a fish fest in the city and put all of her fish into that tank for the night. I shut it down from my water and when the fish were gone, I drained it, and cleaned and then added it to my water supply. There are things that can be done to make things work out in the end. Perhaps I was lucky, perhaps it is the way the system is built, or perhaps I just some how know what I am doing. There are many members here that I know that bend and break the rules and have done amazing things with their systems. They just don't speak about it, since it against all odds or what others say is possible. I may not have all my fish for three years but it will likely be due to them outgrowing their habitat, or the fact that all of them have grown too large and I will have to thin my school of fish. I have done this already, and it was a hard choice to make at times, which ones stayed and which ones went to new homes. All I am saying it is possible to do things when the odds are stacked against you. New reefers should try to contact people in private after they do a search on fish or certain issues, to avoid the bashing and belittlement. It has always been an ongoing joke on how I get my butt kicked for asking anything on the forums, when other people get away with the same thing. There are people that are quick to bash others for adding a small tank to their smaller tank, when they have plans of upsizing or rehoming the fish when it outgrows it's tank. However the same people that often ridicule others for this practice do the exact same thing, and justify it. Why would anyone take these comments seriously or as helpful when people do not practice what they preach? Any ways... I am just saying it is possible to house certain sea life together peacefully, through trial and error. Sometimes you don't know until you try, since every case is different. I see people that have killed multiple fish of the same species, only to get on their high horse and say not to do it. Well, why should I bother listening to these people when they don't follow their own advise, or blame other things that cannot be proven for a fact for the deaths? I have made mistakes, and readily admit to them. I get beat up for it on these forums, but I have learned from each and every one of them. There are people that continue to make the same mistakes and errors in what they do, and nothing gets said. I can say from all the things I have done and mistakes I have made, I am a better hobbyist. I now know that I can't have it all, but I know some people that have more fish then me, and a tank full of the most amazing corals. I myself, have tried and can't, so I won't try again anytime soon, if I ever do. This is an amazing hobby and just the fact that we can keep marine fish alive and well, is a miracle all in itself. It just depends how much you can or want to do to ensure they thrive.
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#15
07-17-2009, 03:51 PM
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Brad I whole heartedly agree with you. There are fish I will avoid since people did say not to try them. I weigh out the pros and cons, and then I search for the people that have these fish and ask what they did to ensure their survival. I then go ask all the questions I need to ask in PMs and then decide if it is worth my while to try. When I bring in certain fish with low survival rates, it is a huge stress to me. I watch and I wait, I watch some more, do more research, drive myself nuts, and still do more reading and ask more questions. I will only try something once, and so far I have been very lucky. I do believe that most of it is the diversity of the foods I feed my fish. I throw everything in there in small amounts several times a day. I adjust powerheads and see what the results are. I also give new fish three days to settle in and establish a pecking order. Three days seems to be the magic number.
I am not telling people to go out and try stuff because I have done so. I am just saying to do the research and ask member directly on how they succeeded and if the fish are alive to this date. A couple of my fish are a huge PITA!!! They won't eat pellets and I have to trial and error many different foods or make home prepared diets to keep them fat and healthy. The fish I do have that almost never live are not at all easy to keep in the time I have to invest on learning what they want to or will eat. The bioload I put on my tank with learning these things about them was expensive due to the water changes I had to do frequently, and for the food I would have to purchase or make to see if they liked it. I fed several small meals throughout the day, and went through a heck of a lot of food and salt to ensure they were eating and keep the water quality. Now that I do know, I feed twice a day and know what they need or want. A lot of it was research and asking other people, but a lot of it was time, effort and money. All fish are different and some of my fish eat different things then other people's fish of the same species. All I am saying is that sometime things can be done if you are willing to make the sacrifices and be prepared to not have money to do anything else aside of the tank until you figure things out. I am so glad I am past that point. I don't need fish, corals or any livestock. I just buy food and salt, and I am done. I can finally enjoy my tank, since it was bloody hell for a very long time. I did it to myself but now it is done and I can just sit back and enjoy them all. No more money, or upgrades for now. I discovered I do not need a chiller and that really pleased me. My only issue is we might move out of the province next year, and I don't know how I can move this system. I really want to keep it and my livestock, so I will need to research. However I will not worry about it for now, since it has not happened yet. I already know whom I would offer my favorite fish to, free of charge since I know they would keep them happy. For myb fish it would not be about recouping money, it would be about the people that are best suited for my fish. I just wanted to speak my peace, since I really did get beat up a lot for asking anything, and felt it was uncalled for. You are right people should count to ten before hitting the submit button, since it does nothing but make people afraid to ask for help when it is needed. My friends call me the reef anarchist, and I guess I had to be one for a long time to get to where I needed to be. Again thanks to those that helped me out in private, they helped me decide if it was worth it to try and what needed to be done to succeed. Quote:
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#17
07-18-2009, 01:30 AM
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Hey at the end of the day its your tank and if you go through all of this for your fish then who cares what you do its your hobby and your Opinion on how things are done. I would rather see or anyone on here take a fis hthat is impossible to take care of and give it a place to live even if its life can only live for 3-4 months at least it made it that far. But when some one buys a the same fish and doesnt have the background or some of us and it dies like in 2-3 days or hours that is sad.
Like I have satated to you befoe in a PM, who cares what other people think. its your money ,time and passion that keeps your fish going through day after day. MIke
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180 starfire front, LPS, millipora Doesn't matter how much you have been reading until you take the plunge. You don't know as much as you think.
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#18
07-18-2009, 01:47 AM
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Diana, your tank is awesome, and you have done extremely well. I see that combo's are possible that I was told never would be. Your tan has been a great inspiration for mine.
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Dan Pesonen Umm, a tank or 5
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#19
07-18-2009, 02:56 AM
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i'm pretty sure i'll get it for this post but its ok, i feel i've earned the right to speak my mind on here. i think alot of the time people should keep their mouth shut as to what 'THEY' feel should be allowed into someone elses tank. where someone gets off deciding what should and shouldnt be allowed to be sold or kept is beyond me. if you really stand back and think outside the box, nothing we put in our tanks should technically be there. but at the end of the day the hobbyist is the strongest researcher in marine life when it comes to owning an aquarium. we spend more time on our tanks and staring into them for endless hours than actually scientists do in the lab. yes i agree there is alot of losses of marine life in the industry but there is a greater loss in the wild with global warming. all the time spent in attacking others for their decisions or protesting stores or suppliers for what they are bringing should be spent in trying to make a difference in the environment.
hats off to you for doing a great job in not only keeping your livestock alive but obviously having them thrive. sorry i couldnt find the regulations on timelines of keeping livestock alive to prove your success. but by the sounds of it, it exists. along with the red and yellow fish list. "thank you, come again"
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#20
07-18-2009, 03:48 AM
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Hi,
First of all...  Now, to the hurt of the matter… Just like you I had successes with some hard to keep specimens such as Diacanthus (keep2 3 together for some time, all eating dry food) I head a mandarin for 4 years and he eat dry food eventually, cleaner wrasse was my tank doctor for a long time and so on…. you said: Quote:
These hard to keep specimens requires advance planning and some aquarium modification. For example the Diacanthus is very sensitive to nitrogen cycle, so it is better to introduce it to an established system 3-6 month. If you have some aggressive fish in your system you should know you will have to give them away in order to maintain this delicate fish. These are not fish you buy on the spot out of enthuse! Buying them without a proper planning and knowledge will end in their death and the enthusiast bitter disappointment!
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