Help Getting Started

[c_scherer123]

Originally Posted by serratus

Wow, it seems you guys are unanimous about not using a mechanical filter and going for a good protein skimmer.

I'm starting to learn that the nitrates are bad too and live rock filters that out. Now, here is where I am a bit confused and please point out if any of what I am saying is wrong: Live Rock as well as a cannister filter have bacteria that grows in them that converts ammonia into nitrite and then from nitrite to nitrate. So from what you are saying, is there a different bacteria that grows ONLY in the live rock that converts nitrate into nitrogen gas? These guys don't live in the cannister filter?

Second confusing point, whether you have a cannister filter or not, the amount of ammonia produced by the live stock will be the same which means the amount of available ammonia that gets converted into nitrite is the same. In turn, this means that cannister filter or not, the amount of nitrite available to convert into nitrate is the same. So how does the cannister filter INCREASE the nitrate levels? Wouldn't that be the same irregardless of cannister filter or not?

I don't mean to sound like I am arguing with you. I am not. It's just that I am confused and would like to find out why. It seems that all of you agree that cannister filters INCREASE nitrate levels so there must be some error in my thinking and that's why I am confused.

Being fairly new myself, I remember the confusion.
Ok, here is an example of why i would use a skimmer instead of a canister.
Eg. Feeding time - some brine shrimp (or other food/fish waste/etc) is floating around the water column. The water current is supposed to keep stuff from falling on the sand/substrate. So, it can get sucked into a canister - if you have foam, it can sit there decompose until you clean it (image a fish sitter on holidays...). Or it can get sucked into the skimmer which would throw it into the foam in the cup. The foam isn't part of the system now (unless it overflows...) and it tossed out on a regular basis.

As for live rock, as I understand it (and someone may correct me on this), there is a special bacteria deep inside the rock which operates in anerobic conditions to help remove some of the nitrates. The rock also converts ammonia into nitrites and into nitrate, but it also has a small capacity to (remove/convert?) nitrates. Foam in the filter just lacks the ability to remove nitrate. (Also, how many times have you managed to rinse a sponge completely clean?)
A canister with carbon can provide extra flow, but a powerhead will provide more flow for less money (and lacks the capacity to leak water on the floor if it breaks). Just provides a nice place to hide some carbon.

[Leah]

Thought I might mention all my tanks are sumpless and relatively simple.

[Leah]

Just thought about something else to consider, while I was cleaning skimmers. It was a
pain where I live and that is when the power would go out I would have to unplug all
filters empty and clean them....that is if I was home was at home when it happened,
for me it was a huge job. Hope this is helping and not adding to your confussion.

[Ian]

since you are getting advice from persons far more knowledgable than myself all I will say is welcome and you have made the smartest move you can by joining this forum and asking questions

[Slick Fork]

I think the thing to take away from the cannister vs no cannister discussion is that IF you clean them religiously, they're not necessarily an evil place to run carbon and GFO and if you had one already I would not dissuade you from using it.

However, since you don't already have one there are much more efficient ways to spend your money. Yes:
- You can run carbon adn GFO in it but you can also run carbon and GFO in a HOB filter that is easier to clean.
- You can put live rock in it, you can also put live rock in your tank.
- You can use it to increase flow, powerheads do this much more efficiently
- You can use it to "add a gallon or two" but really, on a 50 gallon tank I think the argument could be made that a gallon or two isn't really going to make a noticeable difference.

So really, since you don't already own one... I think the question you should be asking is not "Can I get away with using a cannister filter?" but, "Will spending money on a Cannister filter instead of other things benefit me somehow?" As an example I'll use J&L aquatics pricing (I know you found the 405 on ebay but I have no idea what the price was so we'll stick with J&L) A fluval 405 would run you $199. For that kind of money you could buy 2 Koralia 4's and a phosban reactor kit to run carbon & Rowaphos.

This can be a VERY expensive hobby if you let it. The key is figuring out which investments will get you the best returns, otherwise you could spend a fortune throwing good money after bad