is Potassium required for reef???? Help??

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Well... no. PIF is a color refining product that has little of no capability of maintaining any significant levels of K+. The biggest problem with trying to achieve any form of K+ dosing with PIF is that it WILL result in an overdose of Iodide. You're better off doing water changes with a salt that has elevated levels of K+.

That said, PIF is untouchable for producing vivid blue coloration.

And exactly how does this product produce "vivid blue coloration"? It is after all simply potassium iodide so obviously it adds both potassium and iodide so how can one say it won't help maintain both potassium and iodide levels? You can't use it to raise levels but with regular water changes it must help maintain K levels, to say otherwise simply doesn't make sense. Also how can you overdose on iodide by following proper dosing directions? K is +1 and Iodide is -1 so close to equal amounts are added.

[StirCrazy]

or you could just run a Ca reactor with a good ballanced media in it to keep all your trace elements up..

I never doesed K and never tested it.. never even heard of worring about it untill reciently.. amazing how we ever grew nice SPS tank a few years ago '

Steve

[albert_dao]

Son of a... I had a WICKED reply with molar masses and everything here and the stupid browser screwed up. Anyway, here's a dumbed down version... God...

Originally Posted by sphelps

And exactly how does this product produce "vivid blue coloration"?

If you're looking for a scientific explanation, that's beyond my realm of knowledge. But here's what happens:

You add it to a ULN tank, your acros get super blue. /end

Originally Posted by sphelps

It is after all simply potassium iodide so obviously it adds both potassium and iodide so how can one say it won't help maintain both potassium and iodide levels?

When you look at a product like Potassium Iodide, you should be reading it as Iodide. Period. We're talking about an inorganic compound (K+I−) where the potassium is pretty much irrelevant.

Originally Posted by sphelps

You can't use it to raise levels but with regular water changes it must help maintain K levels, to say otherwise simply doesn't make sense. Also how can you overdose on iodide by following proper dosing directions? K is +1 and Iodide is -1 so close to equal amounts are added.

Iodide is found in NSW at concentrations of 0.06 mg/L
Potassium occurs at 0.4 g/L or 400 mg/L

The water changes (assume a salt that isn't chronically low in potassium) is what helps maintain your levels, not potassium iodide. If you droped even 1% potassium and tried to level it off with PIF, you're going to poision stuff.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

or you could just run a Ca reactor with a good ballanced media in it to keep all your trace elements up..

I never doesed K and never tested it.. never even heard of worring about it untill reciently.. amazing how we ever grew nice SPS tank a few years ago '

Steve

This is bankrupt, no offense. Potassium augments the overall vigor of corals and that's something that you can find user support for even within the confines of this thread. Just because it wasn't used during the pioneering days of SPS systems hardly ratifies the position that it is superfluous.

The closer we get to ULN NSW water levels, the more and more we find that super low Potassium levels leads to destrimental health problems with many corals (especially SPS). This was traditionally not the case back when our tanks struggled with NO3's and phosphates, but that's all changed over the past couple years with the surging popularity of probiotic methodologies. But I digress - you run ULN for any given length of time paying no heed to your potassium (using a lower grade salt, not dosing, etc) and your SPS starts to get pale and sickly. You bring the levels up to NSW and bam, everything flourishes again.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

The closer we get to ULN NSW water levels, the more and more we find that super low Potassium levels leads to detrimental health problems with many corals (especially SPS). This was traditionally not the case back when our tanks struggled with NO3's and phosphates, but that's all changed over the past couple years with the surging popularity of probiotic methodologies. But I digress - you run ULN for any given length of time paying no heed to your potassium (using a lower grade salt, not dosing, etc) and your SPS starts to get pale and sickly. You bring the levels up to NSW and bam, everything flourishes again.

I agree that it is important, having as close to NSW values is very important, all I am saying is that with a good alround media that is dissolved into the tank you should have enough K.

on a side note if stores and such are pushing stuff to help get the perfect water levels why are they still telling you that you need over 400ppm of Ca? the average NSW for the world is 380 to 400 so why are people trying to get 450 when it is actually hard on the corals.. oh and there is research that shows that also. (Simplified version is that the coral has to expend more energy to remove the Ca from equilibrium in its cells to deposit it as a skeleton for new growth)

I won't say every store, as there are several good ones, but on average the job of a store is to sell stuff.. so if they can bring something to the fore front that wasn't realy looked at befor as it is one of thoes things that is general good, then heck theres a whole new sale on a line of chemicals and test kits. but like I said not all stores are like this and I am not implying that any one reading this is like this but rather just the way things are out there. If I owned a store whould I bing this in.. if it is going to sell hell ya. if it is going to sit on the shelf for ever nope, I can put something in that space that would actualy make money.

the problem I have with this K thing is generaly people who are hard core SPS are running massive amount of Ca reactor material, one of the most popular is Carb sea which is a ballanced media. so I could see on initial set up making sure everything is deicent then checking for K maybe every couple months.. and for the record for the last year my SPS take was running I did test for K twice.. it was a little over 400 each time. this is why I don't understand how it gets depleted on a sps tank running a Ca reactor. oh and I was running IO (the only salt I will use) and had zero phosphates and nitrates.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

On a side note, I read my original post and it could be taken as I am against the use of K or anthing like that.. no I am not.. if you need it you need it, but befor you run out and waist a bunch of money make sure you need it. I was pushing the importance of Mg quite a while befor people actualy started to worry about it so yes there are things we take for granted and assume we have a proper level. go in with people on a K test kit and maybe spread out the testing and only add if it is realy needed.. I am dead against the blind dosing of tanks. as it can cause major problems. K is a highly reactive material which is why you can only get it bound to another one.. I have seen a overdose of a purer form of K wipe out an entire 300+ gal sps tank, so be carfull of what you buy and how you use it.

another point is I am not against new methods or chemicals either.. well maybe zeo as I still think it is way to much work for what it is.. but I am debating dropping the Ca reactor from my new tank infavor of the balling method and such.. now to me if you are going to go to a new method it has to acomplish the same thing or more and be more simple.

Steve

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

on a side note if stores and such are pushing stuff to help get the perfect water levels why are they still telling you that you need over 400ppm of Ca? the average NSW for the world is 380 to 400 so why are people trying to get 450 when it is actually hard on the corals.. oh and there is research that shows that also. (Simplified version is that the coral has to expend more energy to remove the Ca from equilibrium in its cells to deposit it as a skeleton for new growth)

Old dogs don't learn new tricks would be my guess. People use to think the ideal parameters were = nature plus. Remember seeing vets telling beginners to autopilot their CA reactors to hit kH 10+ and CA 450 ppm? I hardly think that this is a malicious sales ploy, but rather just a vestige of old advice that hasn't gone away. I'm still telling people every day to lower their kH values...

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

the problem I have with this K thing is generaly people who are hard core SPS are running massive amount of Ca reactor material, one of the most popular is Carb sea which is a ballanced media. so I could see on initial set up making sure everything is deicent then checking for K maybe every couple months.. and for the record for the last year my SPS take was running I did test for K twice.. it was a little over 400 each time. this is why I don't understand how it gets depleted on a sps tank running a Ca reactor. oh and I was running IO (the only salt I will use) and had zero phosphates and nitrates.

I don't really have an answer to this, but the fact of the matter is that people do end up in situations where their potassium levels are severely depleted. I suspect manifold causes including lack of, as you said, proper maintenance in the form or routines or equipment/media, feeding, salt mix, etc.

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

On a side note, I read my original post and it could be taken as I am against the use of K or anthing like that.. no I am not.. if you need it you need it, but befor you run out and waist a bunch of money make sure you need it. I was pushing the importance of Mg quite a while befor people actualy started to worry about it so yes there are things we take for granted and assume we have a proper level. go in with people on a K test kit and maybe spread out the testing and only add if it is realy needed.. I am dead against the blind dosing of tanks. as it can cause major problems. K is a highly reactive material which is why you can only get it bound to another one.. I have seen a overdose of a purer form of K wipe out an entire 300+ gal sps tank, so be carfull of what you buy and how you use it.

Touche. It WILL wipe out fish and corals readily if dosed blind, that's for sure!

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

another point is I am not against new methods or chemicals either.. well maybe zeo as I still think it is way to much work for what it is..

Without Zeo, you are not running a reef tank - only a soulless husk of a skeletal remnant of a glass box with water and sodium chloride in it. Without Zeo, your fish do not sleep at night. Without Zeo, your corals know only what it is to long for the real ocean. Without Zeo... Without Zeo... I love Zeo....

[trilinearmipmap]

K balance in a reef tank:

Inputs: food, supplements if any, water added during water changes

Outputs: coral uptake of K, coralline uptake of K, skimmate, water removed during water changes, macroalgae (refugium) pruning

Who knows if K in a reef tank rises or falls over time.

If there is a reliable K assay then I would be interested to see what K levels are in a number of different reef tanks and whether K level decline or rise over long periods of time.

First you would need someone with some decent lab equipment to see how accurate the K test is.

If it is shown that K does tend to drop over time in most reef tanks, then I would consider measuring it and supplementing it.

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Without Zeo, you are not running a reef tank - only a soulless husk of a skeletal remnant of a glass box with water and sodium chloride in it. Without Zeo, your fish do not sleep at night. Without Zeo, your corals know only what it is to long for the real ocean. Without Zeo... Without Zeo... I love Zeo....

So How's that Zeo workin our for ya?

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

So How's that Zeo workin our for ya?

Without Zeo, I would not be running a reef tank - only a soulless husk of a skeletal remnant of a glass box with water and sodium chloride in it. Without Zeo, my fish would not sleep at night. Without Zeo, my corals would long for the real ocean. Without Zeo... Without Zeo... I love Zeo....

/endworld