Geothermal

[Quinster]

The house I just bought is build full ICF walls, it is 1900 sq ft, with no basement. It is running a geothermal system with both in floor heat as well as forced air through an air exchange heat pump. There is also an electric instant heat box on the in floor if it needs a boost.

The home owner boasted $80/mo electric bill on the budget year round, but Manitoba has low rates;

Energy Charge:
First 900 kWh @ 6.25¢/kWh
Balance of kWh @ 6.30¢/kWh

[mike31154]

The one contractor I spoke with mentioned that to convert using my current forced air system, the geothermal installation would provide supplemental heat through electricity when required. I assume the inside unit will include heating elements to do this. I think in the long run, electrical power is more sustainable than natural gas or propane since those are both fossil fuels and the well will run dry at some point. Perhaps not in our lifetime and natural gas is still relatively inexpensive compared to electricity, but there's lots of sun available in the Okanagan, so with the improvements in solar panel technology as well as wind power, it's only a matter of time before the tide turns. Some time in the future, maybe not that far, the major utilities will get a rude awakening, somewhat akin to what the financial sector and auto industry are currently experiencing. A dose of reality. By having a geothermal system, you are in effect, your own utility. As more and more people buy into this technology, prices will drop. De-centralized utilities will become more prevalent. Wind farms may be an eyesore, but they don't mess with air quality and there's no fear of oil spills with tankers traveling half way around the world to deliver the goods, not to mention ruptured pipelines.... Ok, now I'm really off on a tangent.

Good info being brought forward here though, thanks again & keep it coming.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by mike31154

The one contractor I spoke with mentioned that to convert using my current forced air system, the geothermal installation would provide supplemental heat through electricity when required.

you can get them with natural gas suplemental heat also if you already have it.

Steve

[mike31154]

Thanks for the heads up, my current system is natural gas. I am renovating the flooring as well and will be putting in electric radiant heating under tiles in several rooms, so if I go this route, in the end, I may not need much, if any, supplemental, it'll already be there.

[wolf_bluejay]

Well, the company I dealt with here in kamloops, I have deal with quite a few times before, and the owner is pretty honest.

I DID get a lower than average pricing -- mostly to me NOT being in a hurry. I waited 4 months to get it installed. When I got the quote/pricing it was the middle of summer and he was BUSY. So, I did get a good price, but I had to wait until he wasn't already paying his installers overtime and the guys needed the extra work.

The heat pump does both heat and A/C the house.

As for the efficiency, you MUST get a variable speed DC fan in the furnace. I have a bryant furnace and heat pump unit now, and the control unit is what saves all the money. Newer heat pumps can only heat the house down to approx -8 degrees. However, what they actually do is this:

The heat pump kicks in when the temp starts to drop in the house. It runs and runs, but if it doesn't raise the temp in a reasonable amount of time, the furnace kicks in instead. The amount of heat that comes out depends on the outside temperature. changing the fan speed "sets" the temperature difference, so the variable speed can run the heat pump in colder weather.
In the case of my place -- it was running down to -19 before the furnace would kick in. (I added insulation as well).

The first thing you'll want to do is get the "eco-energy assesment" done. It is really worth the $150 even if you don't do anything that can get a grant. After it is done, they send you a booklet with a list of improvements and how much they will save you per year. It has been about 1 year since the install and the number on the assesment have been +/- 3%, which is really, really close.

My gas bills are now about $13 (from 80) and my hydro is up $20. I do like in a 1800 sqft townhouse, so with a large house your saving will be MORE. But that is what the assesment can tell you. It figured about $600 a year saving with a heat pump and attic insulation.

If you are on propane -- wow, get one. At my "other" place we have electric heat, which is about the same cost as propane. electric heat is 100% efficient, meaning for each watt of power 1 watt goes to heat. Most heat pumps are around 260%. So about 1/3 the heating cost.

I can't help but laugh at my wife's family. They paid 5K for a new mid-efficient furnace with now grants and no A/C.

By the time everything is said and done, we are getting about $5000 in grants, some for insulation, some for the heat pump, some for the furnace, some for air sealing etc.

Basically the heat pump cost about $500 more than the grants. But if you factor that just getting central A/C is a few grand, it is cheaper to get the heat pump than just the A/C (heat pump are about $1000 more than A/C)


Whew -- Now, just to tick off the heating companies. There is quite a mark up on the furnace and heat pump. So, even though I had most quotes for the high-efficiency furnace (95%) and heat pump around 11-12K, in the end the bill was $8700. So yes, they can come down that much. And with the current down-turn in the economy, it might even be a bit more.

If you have a 200 amp main electrical service, you might be able to get away with an electric furnace instead of a gas furnace as well. I would have loved to cut the gas of completely and not pay $11 a month just as a basic charge

yes $11 of my $13 bill is the basic connection charge

Don't forget, it is all PST exempt as well

The only main diff between air exchange heat pump and geo-thermal is that you don't need backup heat.

[mike31154]

Awesome Wolf, thank you for the very comprehensive breakdown. Need to get that energy assessment done ASAP.