Aquariums and GFCI - Page 4

Delphinus · #31 05-04-2009, 09:15 PM

I'm afraid so, even though I took the "+1 on the use of GFCI's."

(Like I think I mentioned, but not 100% sure anymore,) I seem to get about 1-2 nuisance trips per year. I call them nuisance trips because I'm never able to find the cause. I've posted about this in the past and was told "it's because something caused it to trip." But I can't find out what, and if it only happens every 6 to 12 months there's no hope of being able to find it. At least when I plug things back in, nothing trips it, and no stray voltage in tank using a multimeter. <Shrug> Maybe I diagnose incorrectly, I'll admit I'm no electrician. I try to understand, but some things are above my head.

Anyhow, sorry, to the point, last summer I had a GFCI trip, and Murphy's Law kicked in, nobody noticed until a good 8 or 9 hours later. Ordinarily, I load share my tanks between two circuits, so if one GFCI trips, the other still tends to run, and usually either the sump return pump or the powerheads stay on. Because of this I've had power out on one circuit for long periods of time before, and never lost anything before.

But my 20g was all on one circuit, it was such a low-cost-to-operate tank that I just had it on the 1 circuit and so the tank was completely flatlined for the 8-9 hours.

I lost a pair of flame angels. I found them wedged into crevasses in the rock, one was so badly rigored I had to break the rock to remove him. Beautiful little pair of Hawaiian red flames and they were getting along perfectly too.

I regret that I lost these fish. I don't know that I regret the GFCI though still. Maybe the solution is to use a controller or something that can give an alarm when power goes out. At the very least, one of those powerfail screamer nightlight things, but I haven't been able to find any locally (I admit I haven't looked as hard as I could have though)

Like this: http://cgi.ebay.ca/PowerOUT-Power-Fa...3286.m20.l1116

mark · #32 05-04-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

So okay then let's flip this discussion around. We have lots of people that have shared experiences about GFIs saving them from shocks or fires. Does anyone at all have a story about how a nuisance tripped GFI cost them livestock? Not a trip that was warranted, just a random event like is presented as an argument against them.

Since starting SW, never have had a false trip.

Tony, have you replaced your GFI since that first false trip?

fkshiu · #33 05-04-2009, 11:35 PM

No false trips for me in 5 years+ of using them.

midgetwaiter · #34 05-05-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus

I regret that I lost these fish. I don't know that I regret the GFCI though still. Maybe the solution is to use a controller or something that can give an alarm when power goes out. At the very least, one of those powerfail screamer nightlight things, but I haven't been able to find any locally (I admit I haven't looked as hard as I could have though)

Like this: http://cgi.ebay.ca/PowerOUT-Power-Fa...3286.m20.l1116

Yeah I remember you posting about this. An alarm is a good idea and if you can't find one you could put something like that together for about $10.

If you are interested I could draw it for you.

Delphinus · #35 05-05-2009, 02:03 AM

That'd be pretty cool, thanks.

Mark and Frank, are you using plug-in GFCI's or GFCI breakers?

I haven't replaced the GFCI's I use. I didn't consider that actually.

... I'm stringing new wires for my tank room and was looking at breakers. A GFCI breaker is like $80-ish versus $12-ish for a regular breaker and $15 for a plug GFCI. Are the breakers less prone to nuisance trips?

Binare · #36 05-05-2009, 04:08 AM

My entire house is on GFCI, its 65 years old, every circuits on a dead front (looks like a GFCI receptacle but can't plug anything into it. I've never had a nuisance trip. btw, I wouldn't call a short a nuisance trip, I'd call that 'doin its job'

I've never installed a GFCI breaker when a receptacle or deadfront will do the same thing.

Binare · #37 05-05-2009, 04:16 AM

Fyi, the receptacles are on sale at totem for around 8 bucks, I can't even buy em at my wholesalers for that cheap. If anyones got doubts about there's, change it.

fkshiu · #38 05-05-2009, 04:29 AM

All of mine are wall receptacle GFCIs.

mark · #39 05-05-2009, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus

That'd be pretty cool, thanks.

Mark and Frank, are you using plug-in GFCI's or GFCI breakers?

I haven't replaced the GFCI's I use. I didn't consider that actually.

... I'm stringing new wires for my tank room and was looking at breakers. A GFCI breaker is like $80-ish versus $12-ish for a regular breaker and $15 for a plug GFCI. Are the breakers less prone to nuisance trips?

Not sure if the breaker better than just the plug type as had no false trips with either just a friend had a bunch of GFCI breakers so no cost is why I went with them.

First breaker most of the downstairs gear (return pump, skimmer, etc) second breaker for upstairs ccts (CL, T5 ballasts) and the MHs are on a third cct daisy changed off a GFCI receptical.

mike31154 · #40 05-05-2009, 06:37 AM

I have a combination of GFCI circuit breakers, receptacles and even power bars that are now available. Recently purchased a small single plug-in GFCI adapter and that is the only one that has ever 'nuisance' tripped so I no longer use it on my tank related equipment. I was using it with a timer for two of my T5HO lamps and it would trip every time the lights came on. Used a GFCI power bar for the same equipment and it was fine. Maybe the single plug in GFCI adapter is faulty, didn't like the timer, dunno, haven't bothered to try another. The only other thing to be mindful of with GFCI power bars is that they may not power up again after a power loss. I do believe that the GFCI receptacles do not need to be manually reset if there is a power loss to your home which is subseqently restored. Pretty sure most of the portable GFCI devices need to be physically reset after being unplugged or if there is a momentary power interruption.

The only drawback (besides price) to using a GFCI circuit breaker is just that, every device on that circuit is GFCI protected and a trip will take out everything. A GFCI receptacle may be installed anywhere downstream of a normal circuit breaker and will protect only devices downstream of that receptacle. So if it trips, everything upstream still functions until the circuit breaker itself trips. The only GFCI breaker I currently use, supplies my bathroom circuit.

Most of my tank equipment is on one GFCI and the remainder is on a GFCI power bar, no nuisance trips so far. Count me in on the pro GFCI camp. For those who fear a nuisance trip will cost them their livestock, what is your contingency plan for a power outage when you're not around? That will cost you your investment just as easily as a tripped GFCI. Therefore the rationale for not installing a GFCI on your tank equipment for fear that a nuisance trip will cause the loss of your livestock eludes me.

I have a cheapo PennPlax Silent Air air pump which senses power loss and bubbles away until power is restored. I'm planning on a somewhat more sophisticated backup power setup in the future, but for now, the PennPlax with it's D cell batteries will at least provide some oxygenation in the event of power loss and/or GFCI trip. I should probably have two of these on my 75. I'm also planning on wiring up a battery backup for my VorTech MP40W using a deep cycle battery. That will keep it running for quite a while, might even hook two batteries up in series for 24 volts, so it runs at normal speed vice the half speed mode provided by the manufacturer's battery backup.

I worked on aircraft instrument electrical systems for many years, and having read some of the reasoning and opinions on this thread, definitely know who NOT to call to do any of my house wiring. When you're up in the air, there are no second chances, when stuff goes wrong, you're coming down, so redundancy and emergency back up systems are the order of the day.